Revisionism

[Elijah John]

A TBN preacher is doing a series on the book of Proverbs. Quoting one of them, he mentioned the benefits of calling on the name of the Lord.

He mentioned something about when we pray in the name of the Lord Jesus, we offer the Father everything that Jesus is, and has done for us. Or words to that effect.

By "Lord" it was clear the preacher was speaking of Jesus, not Jehovah.

For debate,

- Do you think this is what Solomon had in mind when he mentioned the name of the LORD in the book of Proverbs?

-Is this the inevitable result of Jesus-worship, the conflation of "LORD" (YHWH) with "Lord" Jesus?

-Is this a blatant example of the name of Jesus usurping the name of Father YHWH?

And finally,

-Is this yet another example of revisionism, projecting Jesus backwards (in this case into the book of Proverbs) where he doesn't actually exist?

[DPMartin]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

it seems you need to read the bible more.


"the Lord their God" if the Almighty is your Lord why should you worry for it?

no one gets to the Father but through the Son so, who is Lord to you?

what does John say in his Gospel about who Jesus is in the first chapter?

all of creation is and knows and knows of the Almighty (Creator and Judge) through His Word.

so who is your god, the God of Jesus Christ or one of your own imagination?

who is the judge of what is good and evil for you? if you are, then you seek to be your own god.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by DPMartin]

So, do you really think Solomon, when he wrote the Proverbs had Jesus Christ in mind and not Yahweh when he referred to "the LORD"?

How about King David, in the 23rd Psalm. Who was David referring to, the LORD Yahweh, or the Lord Jesus? Was David invoking the Messiah in that Psalm?

If you think David was invoking Jesus Christ in the 23rd Psalm, what is your evidence?

And if you think Solomon was referring to Jesus Christ as "LORD" in the Proverbs, again, what is your evidence?

[otseng]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

it seems you need to read the bible more.

Moderator Comment

Please do not make assumptions about others.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[shnarkle]

A TBN preacher is doing a series on the book of Proverbs. Quoting one of them, he mentioned the benefits of calling on the name of the Lord.

He mentioned something about when we pray in the name of the Lord Jesus, we offer the Father everything that Jesus is, and has done for us. Or words to that effect.

By "Lord" it was clear the preacher was speaking of Jesus, not Jehovah.

For debate,

- Do you think this is what Solomon had in mind when he mentioned the name of the LORD in the book of Proverbs?

-Is this the inevitable result of Jesus-worship, the conflation of "LORD" (YHWH) with "Lord" Jesus?

-Is this a blatant example of the name of Jesus usurping the name of Father YHWH?

And finally,

-Is this yet another example of revisionism, projecting Jesus backwards (in this case into the book of Proverbs) where he doesn't actually exist?

They used to make movies where law enforcement officers would shout, "Stop in the name of the law", the meaning used to be clear to those watching that the officer was referring to the authority he had to bring the criminal element to justice. For some reason nobody wants to look at "the name of" as having that connotation anymore.

I don't know why, but it sure makes sense to look at it that way regardless of whether one is looking in the old testeament or the new. It's simply pointing out that God, his prophets, messengers, etc. are acting with authority. This is explicitly stated in the new testament; e.g. "he spoke with authority" etc.

[Elijah John]

A TBN preacher is doing a series on the book of Proverbs. Quoting one of them, he mentioned the benefits of calling on the name of the Lord.

He mentioned something about when we pray in the name of the Lord Jesus, we offer the Father everything that Jesus is, and has done for us. Or words to that effect.

By "Lord" it was clear the preacher was speaking of Jesus, not Jehovah.

For debate,

- Do you think this is what Solomon had in mind when he mentioned the name of the LORD in the book of Proverbs?

-Is this the inevitable result of Jesus-worship, the conflation of "LORD" (YHWH) with "Lord" Jesus?

-Is this a blatant example of the name of Jesus usurping the name of Father YHWH?

And finally,

-Is this yet another example of revisionism, projecting Jesus backwards (in this case into the book of Proverbs) where he doesn't actually exist?

They used to make movies where law enforcement officers would shout, "Stop in the name of the law", the meaning used to be clear to those watching that the officer was referring to the authority he had to bring the criminal element to justice. For some reason nobody wants to look at "the name of" as having that connotation anymore.

I don't know why, but it sure makes sense to look at it that way regardless of whether one is looking in the old testeament or the new. It's simply pointing out that God, his prophets, messengers, etc. are acting with authority. This is explicitly stated in the new testament; e.g. "he spoke with authority" etc.

That's a good point, but it does not preclude the function of the name as a channel to the Divine, nor does it address the relative importance of the two names. Jesus and Jehovah.

Paul and complany, as does the modern Church, puts the name of Jesus above all, presumably even above the name of Jehovah himself.

When an average Christian hears the phrase, "the LORD is my shepherd" who do you think the Christian thinks the phrase refers to. Jesus or Jehovah?

That is, if they don't think too much, but go on their first impression, gut reaction.

I don't think David, by contast, was thinking of Jesus. or the Messiah as the "Good Shepherd".

Revisionist propaganda, (NT) indoctrination causes many Christians to see Jesus, not Jehovah as the "Good Shepherd".

[shnarkle]

A TBN preacher is doing a series on the book of Proverbs. Quoting one of them, he mentioned the benefits of calling on the name of the Lord.

He mentioned something about when we pray in the name of the Lord Jesus, we offer the Father everything that Jesus is, and has done for us. Or words to that effect.

By "Lord" it was clear the preacher was speaking of Jesus, not Jehovah.

For debate,

- Do you think this is what Solomon had in mind when he mentioned the name of the LORD in the book of Proverbs?

-Is this the inevitable result of Jesus-worship, the conflation of "LORD" (YHWH) with "Lord" Jesus?

-Is this a blatant example of the name of Jesus usurping the name of Father YHWH?

And finally,

-Is this yet another example of revisionism, projecting Jesus backwards (in this case into the book of Proverbs) where he doesn't actually exist?

They used to make movies where law enforcement officers would shout, "Stop in the name of the law", the meaning used to be clear to those watching that the officer was referring to the authority he had to bring the criminal element to justice. For some reason nobody wants to look at "the name of" as having that connotation anymore.

I don't know why, but it sure makes sense to look at it that way regardless of whether one is looking in the old testeament or the new. It's simply pointing out that God, his prophets, messengers, etc. are acting with authority. This is explicitly stated in the new testament; e.g. "he spoke with authority" etc.

That's a good point, but it does not preclude the function of the name as a channel to the Divine, nor does it address the relative importance of the two names. Jesus and Jehovah.

I think what you're saying is relevant to those who look at it that way, but I don't think everyone looks at it in terms of a channel to the divine. Looking at the name as signifying authority, the New Testament authors point out that all authority has been given to Christ who then passes that authority down to those under his authority. I think there are some who see it as a channel from the divine.

Paul and complany, as does the modern Church, puts the name of Jesus above all, presumably even above the name of Jehovah himself.

I think it's because they see Christ as the Way in which God is manifest in the world. It's the most direct link.

When an average Christian hears the phrase, "the LORD is my shepherd" who do you think the Christian thinks the phrase refers to. Jesus or Jehovah?

They would naturally think of Christ as he explicitly refers to himself as "the good shepherd".

That is, if they don't think too much, but go on their first impression, gut reaction.

They could spend years in study and would still come to the same conclusion as this is a pervasive theme throughout the New Testament. John's gospel is a good example.

I don't think David, by contast, was thinking of Jesus. or the Messiah as the "Good Shepherd".

He would if he were thinking in terms of the coming of messiah.

Revisionist propaganda, (NT) indoctrination causes many Christians to see Jesus, not Jehovah as the "Good Shepherd".

By revisionist propaganda, you mean the gospel narratives themselves?

[brianbbs67]

I think the psalm 23 is referring to YhVh. The preceding psalm 22 , where David's vision is narrated , seems to be about the son of man.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

-Is this yet another example of revisionism, projecting Jesus backwards (in this case into the book of Proverbs) where he doesn't actually exist?

IF by "where he doesn't exist" we mean "where the author had no intention of communicating Christian beliefs" then yes. What you have called revisionism permeates all of the N.T. and the early church.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 7 by shnarkle]

Can you point to any evidence in Psalm 23 that David was indeed thinking of the coming Messiah as his "Shepherd" and not YHVH?