Jagella wrote:
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Replying to post 70 by bluethread]
That is not meant to be a personal jab, but an enquiry regarding an apparent inconsistency in one's viewpoint.
Let's just discuss the issues.
...let me do your work for you and list the passages in that article, so you can explain why you agree with their interpretations of them.
I can say right now that we're not going to resolve how to interpret the Bible. If all the hundreds of Christian sects cannot agree what the Bible says, then how can an atheist and a Christian agree about what it says? The Bible is a strange, ambiguous collection of works written by many people over centuries, and it's no wonder nobody can really figure it out.
But OK--I'll bite the bait.
I have no doubt that you will be a contrarian, I would just like to see whether there is legitimate support for your assertions.
Genesis 14:18-20 - Though Avraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek and was blessed, that does not mean that others are commanded to do the same. Do you disagree? If so, on what grounds?
Tithing is a general principle that The Invisible Man in the Sky (TIMITS) expects from all of his followers. TIMITS wasn't just picking on Abraham placing a financial burden on him that he allows other people to get away with. TIMITS always needs money and not just from Abraham.
According to whom? There is nothing in the text that indicates that.
Numbers 18:21-29 - There are two reasons given for the tithe to the Levite here. "I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the tent of meeting." This tithe was for the service of the Mishkan and facilitating the sacrifices. Last time I checked, no one in the AoG does either of those things. Also, "They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD." This speaks the inheritance in the land. Last I checked, membership in the AoG does not constitute the right to an inheritance in the land of Israel. Do you disagree? If so, on what grounds?
You are correct that the particular circumstances surrounding tithing will change, but it's a general principle set up by TIMITS for all his followers until he trashes the present earth and makes a new one.
I could go on, but I think you should understand my point of view regarding Biblical interpretation in general and tithing in particular. TIMITS often issues injunctions to some people at some time that are expected to be obeyed by all people at all times. In addition to tithing, The Ten Commandments, The Sermon on the Mount, and The Great Commission are three examples of commands TIMITS made to some people that are expected to be obeyed by all.
Again, according to whom? The ten commandments are part of the Covenant with Adonai's people, as are the various tithes. The sermon on the mount was given to the Israelites there at the time, who "have heard it said". Also the great commission was given to those of the shul of Yeshua, who were Jewish. Any other examples in of Torah commands that one might presume to have been given to those who do not accept the Covenant?
If it does not effect the point you are making, then there is no reason for it to have been used as the basis for this thread.
It was the icing on the cake and I think a good introduction to this discussion.
Then, where is the cake? Generally, one presents the cake as the base and then adds the icing.
Well, atheists also ask for money and/or goods all of the time. That does not mean that such a request is always inappropriate or their only purpose in life.
What atheists do is completely irrelevant to this discussion, but just for the record I don't give atheists any money. But at least they are honest not claiming that some TIMITS is demanding the money.
Hold it, you just blew off several Scriptures that are supposed to support your point, based on the argument that they "are expected to be obeyed by all", now you say that we should exempt atheists from "all". Which is it, do the tithes apply in the limited manner described in the Scriptures, or do they apply to "all"?
Please, provide that passage and we can evaluate whether the request is appropriate or not.
It didn't take TIMITS long to start panhandling. Just check Exodus 35:1-36:7 to see all the goodies TIMITS begged from the Jews. I wonder if any of the Jews wondered why TIMITS couldn't just create everything he needed using his magic. I'm surely not the first person who can use basic logic!
Well, first that was for a specific purpose, i.e. the construction of the Mishkan. Second, it was from all of the stuff that had been given to them by the Egyptians as an inducment to leave. Third, it was a conditional command, "Everyone who is willing". Also, when there was enough, Moshe' told them to stop giving. “No man or woman is to make anything else as an offering for the sanctuary.� This is after they had wasted a lot of resources on the golden calf, which was in opposition to Adonai's commandments. That does not sound like the endless confiscation you imply. Sure, Adonai, could have just made it appear. However, by constructing it themselves they were able to see, touch and even taste and smell what went into it and note the symbolism of the varius elements. Finally, again this was a one time construction and only for the nation of Israel. There has never been another like it. The Temples were not commanded in any way, they were permitted as an accommodation to the request of the people of Israel.
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