Jesus preaching hate?

[Elijah John]

26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

For debate.

Is this verse evidence that we all must "pick and choose" some passages over others in order to remain Christians?

Or is the passage evidence that Jesus used poetic language of hyperbole?

Can one "hate" and still honor one's parents? If not, then isn't Jesus preaching against an important Commandment? And if so, how could he still be considered "perfect"?

[William]

Did YHVH ever council his followers to hate others? Or is this specific to hating one's parents?

Would YWVH counsel hating one's parents if they were attempting to convince their children to deny and turn away from YWVH?

I think if anyone believes Jesus is the son of YHWH, and YHWH counselled hate, then there seems no good reason why Jesus cannot also counsel hate. It seems a natural enough response of a son honoring a father by copying him.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 29 by William]

I don't think the Bible has YHVH counciling hatred towards anyone but the wicked. Certianly not one's parents, or family, unless they are wicked.

Jesus, by contrast, (if his statments are taken at face value) does council hatred of one's parents and family, simply for being one's parents and one's family.

Seems he saw them as competitors towards his Gospel, and hinderances.

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 29 by William]

I don't think the Bible has YHVH counciling hatred towards anyone but the wicked. Certianly not one's parents, or family, unless they are wicked.

Jesus, by contrast, (if his statments are taken at face value) does council hatred of one's parents and family, simply for being one's parents and one's family.

Seems he saw them as competitors towards his Gospel, and hinderances.

Why do you choose to interpret it this way? Do you interpret Jesus' saying about plucking out your eye and chopping off your hand literally as well?

[William]

[Replying to post 30 by Elijah John]

I don't think the Bible has YHVH counciling hatred towards anyone but the wicked. Certianly not one's parents, or family, unless they are wicked.

Jesus, by contrast, (if his statments are taken at face value) does council hatred of one's parents and family, simply for being one's parents and one's family.

Seems he saw them as competitors towards his Gospel, and hinderances.

Well one could indeed argue that, if Jesus was not the son of YHWH. I guess it is all about what a person decides to believe.

The important thing is that anyone who follows YHWH or Jesus gets to hate others, which is no doubt attractive to such people, who might take these things literally.

As far as competition goes, people will go to extraordinary lengths in order to be seen to be right, the winner, gods chosen ones etc, even if that means lying, cheating stealing, pretending, putting on airs, dressing up to look the part - one can obviously break YHWHs commands if in doing so one is winning something for YHWH.

If ones family are trying to encourage one to turn from YHWHs great love, then hate them.

Hate is Love if it is Love for YHWH which causes hate.

If one can manage to hate ones own life, one can better hate everyone else's life as well.

Or maybe the 'secret' to understanding what Jesus meant might be found in other things Jesus had to say?

[William]

[Replying to post 31 by jgh7]

Why do you choose to interpret it this way? Do you interpret Jesus' saying about plucking out your eye and chopping off your hand literally as well?

Well to be fair, YHWH never commanded self harming as a means of showing ones loyalty/allegiance/worship - Harming others, yes, but not ones self. (Open to correction here of course).

So Jesus appears to be overstepping the line a little there...[strike]assuming he said those things in the first place.. [/strike]and since it is gods holy infallible word where the story is found, he must have said it.

A little foreskin lost to a greater good is one thing. An entire hand or eye is something else again. One has to take care with one's words if one is not to upset people who's minds are tethering on the edge as it is.

But these are gods words are they not? So what should it matter really, anyway! If some minds cannot handle gods holy truth, those minds are probably wicked anyway, so they are deserving of our hate.

If your hand offends you, and you want to get into heaven, why would you not cut it off if that was all that was preventing you from your goal?

[Checkpoint]

26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

For debate.

Is this verse evidence that we all must "pick and choose" some passages over others in order to remain Christians?

Or is the passage evidence that Jesus used poetic language of hyperbole?

Can one "hate" and still honor one's parents? If not, then isn't Jesus preaching against an important Commandment? And if so, how could he still be considered "perfect"?

The principle, "scripture interprets scripture", needs application here, and I suggest it will go a long way towards a satisfactory solution to the problem raised.

The verse chosen is not the only one about this issue, and is from a Gospel that seems to give little immediate context that might bring some clarification.

I now quote the equivalent verse in its immediate context.

The wider context is the entire chapter.

Matthew 10:

34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn

“a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household". (Micah 7:6)

37 Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

40 Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the One who sent me.

[William]

[Replying to post 34 by Checkpoint]

37 Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Upon reflection, that does sound like something YHWH would say... THE LORD has even said to those who don't obey him that he will curse them with all manner of affliction - and they would even go so hungry from lack of food due to the curses, as to eat their own children...[Leviticus 26:20-29]...so is that loving their food or hating their children?

I guess it doesn't really matter. If they don't love YHWH enough as to force the LORD to curse them to go hungry, and then hate their children so much they would eat them instead of cutting off their own arms to keep their kids fed, then YHWH has every right to curse their wicked evil hearts!

Jesus is not preaching hate!! He is teaching YHWHs Love!! How can people not see that??? Are they blind!!! Have they plucked out their own eyes!!??

[Overcomer]

Elijah John wrote:

Jesus, by contrast, (if his statments are taken at face value) does council hatred of one's parents and family, simply for being one's parents and one's family.

And that's the problem -- you're taking it at face value. This is why God's Word involves a study of it, so that we don't misinterpret it. Here is what I shared in another thread about that verse:

Luke 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

The Greek word translated as "hate" is "miseo". It is always used comparatively and involves making one choice over another. In this case, Jesus is saying that his followers must put him first, esteeming people, even family members, as well as our own selves, less than we esteem him. It is not an unreasonable request for God to make. After all, as Jesus himself says, if we seek him, his kingdom and his righteousness first, everything else will fall into place (Matt. 6:33).

Therefore, it is wrong to read into that verse the idea that we should all detest or loathe or despise our families. It simply means that we have to prioritize our relationships, putting God first, and family second.

Here is what Strong's has to say about the word "miseo".

http://biblehub.com/greek/3404.htm

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 31 by jgh7]

Why do you choose to interpret it this way? Do you interpret Jesus' saying about plucking out your eye and chopping off your hand literally as well?

But these are gods words are they not? So what should it matter really, anyway! If some minds cannot handle gods holy truth, those minds are probably wicked anyway, so they are deserving of our hate.

All minds are wicked, some more often and in greater degree, but all are wicked. Should we hate every single person on the planet?

If your hand offends you, and you want to get into heaven, why would you not cut it off if that was all that was preventing you from your goal?

I can't think of a situation where your hand is all that is preventing you. Because ultimately from your mind and heart you make the decision to commit the sin using your hand. Even if you had no hand, the sinful intention would still be there.

And if we take Jesus' saying completely literally, I think many of us would be rendered quadruple amputees with most of our senses missing.

[William]

[Replying to post 37 by jgh7]

All minds are wicked,...

That is what YHWH claims

...some more often and in greater degree, but all are wicked.

No point in quibbling. Wicked is wicked.

Should we hate every single person on the planet?

Is that not the command? Are you being wicked just by questioning the command?
'Be like YHWH.' That is the command.

I can't think of a situation where your hand is all that is preventing you. Because ultimately from your mind and heart you make the decision to commit the sin using your hand. Even if you had no hand, the sinful intention would still be there.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't? Why are you questioning the LORD!!!! How do you know that once your hand is taken off or your eye is plucked out, that this won't end the sinful intention? Would not YHWH see that you are serious and have mercy on you for obedience to his SON and hating your wicked life enough to make the effort knowing that you are less able without and arm and an eye?

And if we take Jesus' saying completely literally, I think many of us would be rendered quadruple amputees with most of our senses missing.

We all, the wicked, would come up with such reasons to disobey the SON of YHWH and continue in our wickedness!!!