"The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a mons

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"The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a mons

Post #1

Post by William »

"The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster"

Obviously this is one of many differing interpretations of the Abrahamic belief systems.

What makes this statement of belief any more truthful than statements of belief contrary to this?

What is meant by 'the real Jesus'? Is there a 'false Jesus'?

How is one to tell the difference?

In the same vein, what is meant by 'the real YHVH'? Is there a 'false YHVH'?

Is the difference understood in the actions assigned to YHVH which are monstrosities, as actions NOT done by YHWH at all?

If these things be truth, how do the Abrahamic writs stack up which offer both 'true' and 'false' as being attributes of the one and the same?

Indeed, wouldn't the idea that "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster." - if truth - mean that very few individuals are actually getting it right and in that, those who are getting it wrong, 'rule the roost' in sheer strength of numbers and the world is a much worse place because of this?

Note: As a Panetheist, the idea of Jesus being an aspect of GOD is no different than the idea that we are all aspects of GOD-Consciousness, so I don't personally hold that as being a false assertion, and certainly much of what Jesus does say speaks to the logic of Panentheism anyway.
In the same way, in relation to YHWH - and for that matter every human idea of GOD - I see something of the local GOD (The Earth Entity) attempting to express ideas into Its offspring to do with GOD which have then been twisted to suit the off-spring agenda which is contrary to the EE's agenda and therein sometimes acts of monstrosity are said to be perpetrated by the local GOD - dressed up as a humanoid on a throne - when it is men and men alone doing the dirty bizz in the name of this false idea of GOD.

In short, this 'off-spring agenda' revolves around the notion of how to actually control all the EE's off-spring in order to indirectly (and for that matter impermanently) control the EE.

(Adding the idea that GOD is ''Omni' simply adds to the confusion)

Therein is the manifestation of evil.


But that is just my understanding of what is going on...you may have your own answers to the OP questions. Certainly I am interested in reading them.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #11

Post by William »

[Replying to post 10 by Elijah John]

I don't think we are all that far apart...in essence.
That will be 10.000 tokens and my name cleared and status reinstalled, thanks.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #12

Post by marco »

William wrote:
Each to their own of course. Are you interested in the real Abrahamic God or the false Abrahamic God? I ask, because that is part of the OP question.

I have no idea what this question means. I read the details from the bible, deduce a fiction and the words "real" and "false" have no meaning here. I would say the same about the "real" Hamlet or the "false" Hamlet. I am utterly convinced that Yahweh and Hamlet are of the same fictional type. His influence on other people is what interests me, since I then get involved.
William wrote:
Also, where did you get this idea this Abrahamic God threatens to break up any aircraft you are in?

I am making the fiction responsible for what believers in him do.
William wrote:

In relation to that, how do you know that this is a threat from the real Abrahamic God rather than the monster one?
Hmmm.



" Jesus has his 'monster' moments too, by all accounts."

We all have, I suppose but I don't see Christ as an axe murderer, destroyer of millions, killer of babies, spreader of diseases.... He said some things that seem harsh. Is this the mark of a monster?

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #13

Post by Elijah John »

William wrote:
Preaching to the choir here Elijah John.
To some extent, yes, but not completely. Let's focus on this for the time being.
William wrote: Check out my Members notes on the subject.
Looks interesting, but not right now, perhaps some other time.
William wrote:
Without the law, how are you or any other religious person ABLE to ACCUSE others of SIN? [/color]
I try to avoid accusing others, and ideally, leave that up to the Creator.
William wrote: Have you found anything which is outside the bible which you think is a source of 'Spiritual inspiration'?


Good question, I'm glad you asked. As a matter of fact, yes, the Qur'an, the Tao Te Ching, the I Ching, some tenants of Buddhism etc...

But the Bible is my cultural inheritance. As such I mine it for what is true, universal, beautiful, timeless and good. What rings true for me anyway. What doesn't, I ignore or reject.

I think even the Fundamentalist does this, even though they do not admit it. How many Fundamenalist women speak in church, for example?. Some are even pastors. They ignore Paul on this matter.

William wrote: ♦ To a pretend 'Entityist' from a genuine 'Entityist' When atheists pretend to be theists in order to try and make points...

For the sake of argument, some do this. Though they are not pretending. They are playing "devil's advocate" and/or "answer (the "fool") according to their ("folly").

.
William wrote: Within the topic I often say that I think YHWH is one of the many names of the Local GOD, the EE. This may not sit well with folk who believe that YHWH is First Source, but at those levels the 'GODs' understand each other as equally all aspects of FS, so seek to express that through the form they occupy.
The monaltry, (henotheism) of the early Hebrews is reflected in the writings of "Moses" mentioning "other gods". In that sense, YHVH was their tribal, local God. Later, with the help of prophets like Isaiah, they came to realize (or believe) that YHVH was the Creator, the first source and Universal God. The ONE God.

William wrote: ♦Earth Entity as an aspect of GOD (a GOD but not THE GOD)[/b]
My absolute monotheism precludes me from recognizing other "gods". Lesser beings even if supernatural, are created beings, like angels, etc, if they actually exist.
I think we probably differ on this. And certainly on terminology, like "Earth Entity"...sounds "spacey" to me. ;)
William wrote: ♦Creation is not the Creator.
On that we agree, at least on the statement at face value. Though the Creator seems to have designed aspects of His Creation to be "self-regenerating" and in that sense, elements of Creation (including humans) become "co"-creators.

That's just touches on some of our agreements and disagreements. Both are real, valid, but I prefer to establish points of agreement before we (or anyone else) tackle the areas of disagreement.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #14

Post by William »

[Replying to post 12 by marco]
I have no idea what this question means. I read the details from the bible, deduce a fiction and the words "real" and "false" have no meaning here. I would say the same about the "real" Hamlet or the "false" Hamlet. I am utterly convinced that Yahweh and Hamlet are of the same fictional type. His influence on other people is what interests me, since I then get involved.
Okay so you are saying there is no real YHWH. It is all false. The monster is not real! That is't really what the OP is asking people. but thanks for your input anyway.
We all have, I suppose but I don't see Christ as an axe murderer, destroyer of millions, killer of babies, spreader of diseases.... He said some things that seem harsh. Is this the mark of a monster?
Who knows! One mans devil is another mans angel...same old same old.

What do you think? Are any of those harsh things he allegedly spoke, something a monster would say, do you think?

Even so, did Jesus really say those monstrous things? That is the OPQ.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #15

Post by William »

[Replying to post 13 by Elijah John]
I try to avoid accusing others..
.

[-X :^o

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #16

Post by marco »

William wrote:

Okay so you are saying there is no real YHWH. It is all false. The monster is not real! That is't really what the OP is asking people. but thanks for your input anyway.
I do not know in what other way I can comment on whether YHWH is real. I believe he isn't.


Those who accept biblical stories may say that what we count as evil, God might count as just; what we see as wisdom, God sees as folly. It's a method of getting round God's bad side. Nelson used his blind eye to make a comment on what he saw, or didn't see - in much the same way.
William wrote:
What do you think? Are any of those harsh things he allegedly spoke, something a monster would say, do you think?

Even so, did Jesus really say those monstrous things? That is the OPQ.


YHWH is created to be frightening, else why bother? The words put in the mouth of Jesus are supposed to be remembered sayings, remembered after many years. A changed word here or there might make good into bad. There is a sufficiency of information for a hundred different opinions, some of them claiming this poor wanderer was a god or God-favoured; a somebody who will come back from the grave on a cumulus cloud to set up chairs and tables in a building and organise a government -for that's what man does - while outside lions will lie down with lambs, singing hymns. Amen.
Last edited by marco on Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #17

Post by William »

[Replying to post 16 by marco]
YHWH is created to be frightening, else why bother? The words put in the mouth of Jesus are supposed to be remembered sayings, remembered after many years. A changed word here or there might make good into bad. There is a sufficiency of information for a hundred different opinions, some of them claiming this poor wanderer was a god or God-favoured; a somebody who will come back from the grave on a cumulus cloud to set up chairs and tables in a building and organise a government -for that's what man does - while outside lions will lie down with lambs, singing hymns. Amen.
I think the word 'Amen' is thought to have come from paganism. Indeed, probably much of what you say above comes from paganism.

So essentially, as most secretly know and some implicitly understand, matters as to what is 'real' and what is 'false', what is 'angelic' and what is 'monster', are really just up to the individual to decide for themselves, if indeed, there is no possible way in which to otherwise verify.

Question answered. Thanks for your most wise input.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #18

Post by marco »

William wrote:

I think the word 'Amen' is thought to have come from paganism. Indeed, probably much of what you say above comes from paganism.
It's a Hebrew word that must have travelled from the sacrificial darkness before YHWH fell out of the sky. Perhaps it was uttered when they were sacrificing babies, before God said it wasn't nice.

There's a nice passage in John where it is used emphatically:

"Amen, amen I say to thee, when thou wast younger, thou didst gird thyself, and didst walk where thou wouldst. But when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and lead thee whither thou wouldst not."


And from the sublime to the ridiculous we have it used in Revelation, seemingly, as a proper noun for Christ but it might refer to an express train or Pope Francis - such is Revelation. ("These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God." )


I don't know if this is the true Christ or the false one. Go well.

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Re: "The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a

Post #19

Post by William »

[Replying to post 18 by marco]
I don't know if this is the true Christ or the false one.
Best I can come up with is that it is likely this one.

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Go well yourself.

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