Salvation and Baptism

[steveb1]

Apparently, Christianity took over the notion of Jewish circumcision as an initiatory rite, and substituted baptism in its place. In the NT, it is baptism "for the forgiveness of sins" which causes the participant to be "in" Christ in a special kind of way. Not only that, Pauline baptism seems to be sacramental - that is, it is a ritual which is participatory - with the acolyte undergoing a spiritually real "dying and rising with Christ". Moreover, some NT texts imply that the foundational gift of the Spirit itself is given through baptism - the first and most noticeable example being that of Jesus himself, who when he was baptized by John the Immerser in the Jordan river, received "the Spirit Like A Dove", who functioned as a tutelary guide, drove Jesus into the wilderness for his ordeal of prayer and fasting, and finally impelled him into his mission and his selection of disciples. Clearly, unlike Jewish circumcision, according to the NT, Christian baptism is far more than a mere initiatory, welcoming custom or tradition.

So it would appear that the NT recognizes baptism as a real, active agent of God's immediate power, presence, and transformative grace.

So question here is how sacramental baptism fits or does not fit with another NT conception, namely, that of salvation by grace/faith, defined as a sheer, unearned gift from God. Is there a tension between :

1) Baptism's sacramental (salvation by works/rituals) aspects as conferring grace and Spirit on the recipient;
... and ...
2) The (non-works) salvation-by-faith injunction?

[Elijah John]

Apparently, Christianity took over the notion of Jewish circumcision as an initiatory rite, and substituted baptism in its place. In the NT, it is baptism "for the forgiveness of sins" which causes the participant to be "in" Christ in a special kind of way. Not only that, Pauline baptism seems to be sacramental - that is, it is a ritual which is participatory - with the acolyte undergoing a spiritually real "dying and rising with Christ". Moreover, some NT texts imply that the foundational gift of the Spirit itself is given through baptism - the first and most noticeable example being that of Jesus himself, who when he was baptized by John the Immerser in the Jordan river, received "the Spirit Like A Dove", who functioned as a tutelary guide, drove Jesus into the wilderness for his ordeal of prayer and fasting, and finally impelled him into his mission and his selection of disciples. Clearly, unlike Jewish circumcision, according to the NT, Christian baptism is far more than a mere initiatory, welcoming custom or tradition.

So it would appear that the NT recognizes baptism as a real, active agent of God's immediate power, presence, and transformative grace.

So question here is how sacramental baptism fits or does not fit with another NT conception, namely, that of salvation by grace/faith, defined as a sheer, unearned gift from God. Is there a tension between :

1) Baptism's sacramental (salvation by works/rituals) aspects as conferring grace and Spirit on the recipient;
... and ...
2) The (non-works) salvation-by-faith injunction?

That is a good observation to contrast Jewish exclusionary circumcision to the more expansive and inclusive rite of Christian baptism as initiation rituals.

If one excludes the notion of infant baptism, (infants are too young for faith) and limits baptism to knowegable older people, (older children, teenagers and adults) then the faith/works dichotomy need not be a question.

A consenting, faith-aware older person can undergo the ritual, and that person's faith infuses the ritual with salvific meaning. An outward sign of an inner conversion.

But it seems that baptism without faith would be to no avail. Though raised a Catholic, the notion of infant baptism never really made sense to me, except as some sort of blessing/dedication. I realize that is not orthodoxy.

Also, something to consider is that Christ did not undergo a "Christian" baptism. John's baptism predated Christian baptism, but was someting new, and unique in the context of his native Judaism. Possibly subervsive in nature, against the Temple. John offered forgiveness based on simple repentances, which bypassed the blood of the Temple. Most probably done in the name of the LORD (YHVH) and not done in the "name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit".

Another possible dimension to this topic would be to explore how the Johannine (the Evangelist) doctrine of the "new birth" is related to baptism.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by steveb1]

So question here is how sacramental baptism fits or does not fit with another NT conception, namely, that of salvation by grace/faith, defined as a sheer, unearned gift from God. Is there a tension between :

1) Baptism's sacramental (salvation by works/rituals) aspects as conferring grace and Spirit on the recipient;
... and ...
2) The (non-works) salvation-by-faith injunction?

Not in my opinion; or at least there should not be any tension between the two.

Baptism is not salvation by works.

Faith without works is dead.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 2 by Elijah John]

"A consenting, faith-aware older person can undergo the ritual, and that person's faith infuses the ritual with salvific meaning. An outward sign of an inner conversion."


That's a very penetrating idea. Makes sense and it does seem to reconcile the "works/faith" issue I raised. Thanks.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 3 by Checkpoint]

"Faith without works is dead."


Yes, so you would say that baptism is a physical ritual that expresses a pre-existing faith - and has no grace-confering power of its own - is that correct?

[DPMartin]

Apparently, Christianity took over the notion of Jewish circumcision as an initiatory rite, and substituted baptism in its place. In the NT, it is baptism "for the forgiveness of sins" which causes the participant to be "in" Christ in a special kind of way. Not only that, Pauline baptism seems to be sacramental - that is, it is a ritual which is participatory - with the acolyte undergoing a spiritually real "dying and rising with Christ". Moreover, some NT texts imply that the foundational gift of the Spirit itself is given through baptism - the first and most noticeable example being that of Jesus himself, who when he was baptized by John the Immerser in the Jordan river, received "the Spirit Like A Dove", who functioned as a tutelary guide, drove Jesus into the wilderness for his ordeal of prayer and fasting, and finally impelled him into his mission and his selection of disciples. Clearly, unlike Jewish circumcision, according to the NT, Christian baptism is far more than a mere initiatory, welcoming custom or tradition.

So it would appear that the NT recognizes baptism as a real, active agent of God's immediate power, presence, and transformative grace.

So question here is how sacramental baptism fits or does not fit with another NT conception, namely, that of salvation by grace/faith, defined as a sheer, unearned gift from God. Is there a tension between :

1) Baptism's sacramental (salvation by works/rituals) aspects as conferring grace and Spirit on the recipient;
... and ...
2) The (non-works) salvation-by-faith injunction?

baptism is Jewish Jesus preached repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and baptism is all about repentance.

circumcision is another issue all together, actually nothing theologically in Christianity replaces circumcision it is understood as not required.

one does not have to be Jewish to receive Salvation of one's soul in Christ, but both Jews and gentiles must be received in Christ to be saved.

baptism by Holy Spirit is required "born again" baptism by water is an public act of repentance. which was common in Israeli culture then.

Jesus being baptized by water was an act of fulfillment in the flesh as a Son of man of Hebrew blood. Jesus had nothing to repent from. hence John's statement that he should be baptized by Jesus instead.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 6 by DPMartin]

"one does not have to be Jewish to receive Salvation of one's soul in Christ, but both Jews and gentiles must be received in Christ to be saved"


Thanks for your reply - yes, your citation very well summarizes Paul's own view.