What if Hell is the only way to reach someone?

[jgh7]

Let's say there's a person who pretty much dislikes the bible's notions for whatever reasons. One has tried showing them the importance of God and whatnot, but they don't care or they find it silly or what have you.

Then you (the Christian) warn them that if they are not saved they will go to Hell instead of Heaven. This worries them and they actually decide to give Christianity a chance.

If all else fails, is this an acceptable method to use? Or would one be better off never using this method and just leaving the skeptic be as they are? I believe Jesus warns of Hell in different parts throughout the Gospels.

This is a highly touchy topic which is why I bring it up. I'm interested in the views and reasoning.

[JehovahsWitness]

I was trying to find which verse spoke to me the most to make me consider this. I think it was this one:

Mark 8:36-38
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? 37 Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

-----

If someone is arguing that they have no need whatsoever for Christianity and are content in their succesful life, this verse comes to my mind, and it in a sense is warning of Hell as a consequence of rejecting Jesus.

Emphasis MINE

What specifically in this verse conveys any idea of "hell"*? I'm finding it difficult to see how anyone can see any idea of "hell" in the verse above, unless you believe hell to simply be a synonym of "to lose one's life (soul)".

• * Perhaps is would be helpful for you to offer a brief outline of what you believe "hell" to be. I'm presuming you are taking the "hell" to by synonymous with "being dead" ie "lose one's soul (life)" = be dead= be dead = be in "hell" = be in hell = to be [whatever your own personal definition of "hell" is] and that you are superimposing your preestablish belief onto the the reading of the verse.

MARK 8:36

Good News Translation
Do you gain anything if you win the whole world but lose your life? Of course not!

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For what does it benefit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his life?

International Standard Version
What profit will a person have if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?

NET Bible
For what benefit is it for a person to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his life?

Not every Christian sees "hell" around the corner of every verse.




JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[William]

[Replying to post 9 by jgh7]

Mark 8:36-38
For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? 37 Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.

-----

If someone is arguing that they have no need whatsoever for Christianity and are content in their succesful life, this verse comes to my mind, and it in a sense is warning of Hell as a consequence of rejecting Jesus.

There is no mention of hell in this verse. Just mention of 'losing the ownership of the soul' whatever that is supposed to mean.

From what I can gather from various resources the 'soul' seems to be some kind of attachment or perhaps aspect of individuate consciousness which stores the data of personal experience. It is the personal experience which defines the person, so to lose that is to lose the person.

Forum Member "The Tanager" and I were discussing this idea a few months back.

He called it 'annihilation' and thought this was a better consequence of justice than eternal torment in a fiery hell.

[JehovahsWitness]

Just mention of 'losing the ownership of the soul' whatever that is supposed to mean.

I have found a good reflex is to simply look up a verse in different translations.
http://biblehub.com/mark/8-36.htm

Christian Standard Bible
For what does it benefit someone to gain the whole world and yet lose his life?

Contemporary English Version
What will you gain, if you own the whole world but destroy yourself?

Good News Translation
Do you gain anything if you win the whole world but lose your life? Of course not!

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For what does it benefit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his life?

International Standard Version
What profit will a person have if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?

NET Bible
For what benefit is it for a person to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his life?

GOD'S WORD® Translation
What good does it do for people to win the whole world yet lose their lives?

King James 2000 Bible
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own life?

American Standard Version
For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

English Revised Version
For what doth it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

Weymouth New Testament
Why, what does it benefit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his life?

World English Bible
For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

Young's Literal Translation
for what shall it profit a man, if he may gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?

To "lose one's life" generally means in english simply means "to die". Further than that it comes to what one believes is the condition of the dead but the verse itself doesn't impose any particular meaning to except that it is used as a punishment and is contrasted with being alive

[William]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

I have found a good reflex is to simply look up a verse in different translations.

I have found the better way to research theological ideas is to broaden the search outside of the reflex toward just the one religions biblical writ.

Wiki is good for a quick search to give the investigator an overall sweep...The Soul.

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

I hold open both interpretations for hell since i dont know. Maybe its nonexistence or maybe its eternal torment. To me its just the bad sentence rather than the good one at the final judgment.

Was Jesus referring to something else when he mentions losing/forfeiting ones soul?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

I hold open both interpretations for hell since i dont know. Maybe its nonexistence or maybe its eternal torment. To me its just the bad sentence rather than the good one at the final judgment.

Was Jesus referring to something else when he mentions losing/forfeiting ones soul?

I'm still having a problem why you seem to be equating "loss of life" with anything but dying. If a newscaster announced "A tragic fire in a New York building today resulted in 12 reseidents losing their lives" would you still be confused as to what was being said? Or would you (like most people) take it to mean 12 people died?

[jgh7]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

I would take it to mean they died. The only reason I leave both options open biblically is because both appear to be suggested in different parts of the NT. And the debate as to which is the correct interpretation has not ended to this day to the best of my knowledge.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 16 by JehovahsWitness]

I would take it to mean they died.

So the words "to lose your life"/"to take a life" mean to die or in the case of take, kill. Why then does Jesus using the same expression cause you such confusion?

- If a newsreader said it, you'd understand.
- If I said it, you'd understand.

...but If Jesus it, using exactly the same words you're thrown into confusion?

The only reason I leave both options open biblically is because both appear to be suggested in different parts of the NT.

Both what? I'm looking at the expression, "to lose your life" what is the "both" you are refering to?

[William]

[Replying to post 17 by jgh7]

I would take it to mean they died. The only reason I leave both options open biblically is because both appear to be suggested in different parts of the NT. And the debate as to which is the correct interpretation has not ended to this day to the best of my knowledge.

It isn't likely to end through internal resourcing either. Specifically Abranites will always be in disagreement with one another. Perhaps it was designed that way in order to take attention off of some other thing. Like how a beloved magicians left hand distracts the awed from seeing what his right hand is up to... /***

[Wootah]

Let's say there's a person who pretty much dislikes the bible's notions for whatever reasons. One has tried showing them the importance of God and whatnot, but they don't care or they find it silly or what have you.

Then you (the Christian) warn them that if they are not saved they will go to Hell instead of Heaven. This worries them and they actually decide to give Christianity a chance.

If all else fails, is this an acceptable method to use? Or would one be better off never using this method and just leaving the skeptic be as they are? I believe Jesus warns of Hell in different parts throughout the Gospels.

This is a highly touchy topic which is why I bring it up. I'm interested in the views and reasoning.

Fear is a good thing. More people should live their lives in fear and trembling and they would try harder and be more grateful. Of course explaining the full picture of God is important. Many many people do not accept a smiley happy God that does not deal with justice and many manh people do think hell is justified.