Finding evidence through experiment/experience

Pointless Posts, Raves n Rants, Obscure Opinions

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14192
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 912 times
Been thanked: 1644 times
Contact:

Finding evidence through experiment/experience

Post #1

Post by William »

[yt]8VB6h_bWR3Y[/yt]

The video begins with the statement "You are not a human being with a soul. You are a soul which temporarily inhabits a human body."

As such, this can be regarded as a claim, but how is the claim to be tested?

The video is about Astral Projection and this subject is finding more and more interest in individuals who want to experience first hand something which is claimed to be real and able to be experienced by anyone who learns the how-to basics.

From my own experiences, AP has convinced me that I am more than just a human form, and that there is more to life than living, here on the planet and that when my body finally dies I will then experience 'the next level' - which is intimately connected with this present one.

I have also come to see that the 'soul' is simply one's personal experience as an individuate consciousness, and that ultimately all consciousnesses are interconnected.

Some of the key points in this particular video are:

1: By being able to project your consciousness outside of your body, you can witness things such as the earth being a sphere, or friends on the other side of the world and what they are doing.

2: AP is a phenomenon that is becoming rapidly more popular in the last 20 years...even more so in the last 5 years.

3: While APing one retains a high level of waking consciousness during the experience and one can remember that experience in every detail once you return to the physical body.

4: We all experience AP every night but most of this is on an unconscious level as we are not trained to remember them.

5: AP has always been known throughout human cultures since before recorded history. (It is my understanding that this is why religions evolved.)

6: The Astral body (spirit body), Egyptians called 'the light body' 'Ka'
Image
The Tibetan culture thinks of it as a body which houses the soul.

7: At least 1 in 10 people have experienced a conscious AP, either spontaneous or controlled.

8: Spontaneous OBEs can occur while sleeping, during sickness, under medications, during an accident, and while meditating.

9: Controlled OBEs are willful...deliberately induced by the individual.

10: All senses seem greatly magnified while APing.

11: There are a number of dimensional realities one can experience.

12: Things can be instantly manifested by simply thinking them into the reality.

13: The Astral Realm [AR] vibrates at a much higher frequency that the physical plain. Vibration throughout the physical body is common when one is entering into the APExperience.

14: There is no gravity in the AR - or if there is, the individuals Ka is not bound by it.

15: The AR is divided into 3 main sections which span across different dimensional 'overtones' and are usually known as 'Lower' Middle' and 'Higher' Astral Plains and their difference is noted in their vibration frequency.
Lower: More dark and primal.
Middle: Lighter. 'Rainbows and paradise' vivid colors and exquisite beauty.
Higher: Beyond comprehension (ability to describe using language etc) a pure 'angelic' realm. Where 'angels' reside.

16: The individual has to learn how to 'raise their frequency' in order to move from a lower dimension to a higher one and this requires conscious practice. One's personal vibrational tone is attracted by the corresponding frequency of the dimensional experience.

17: The higher the dimension, the less documentation because fewer people experience these and they are harder to describe.

Benefits of AP the video claims;
A: Gives the individual unique fist hand experience.
B: Allows the individual to explore beyond the limits of our physical universe and senses.
C: Enables first hand knowledge of our existence.
D: Connects us with our experiences in apparent past lives.
E: Helps us to identify reasons for existence.
F: Get to know ones self better
G: Self-cure certain illnesses
H: Overcome Traumas
I: Expand our sense of fraternity and universalism.
J: The fun of Flight
K: Meeting up with non-physical guides.
L: Overall well-being
M: Reduction in hostility
N: Increased psychic abilities
O: Accelerated personal development
P: Inner Calmness
Q: Increased quest for answers
R: Respect for life
S: Increased zest for life
T: Meeting deceased loved ones
U: Increased intelligence and memory recall
V: Increased knowledge and wisdom
W: Witnessing other realities
X: Increased self responsibility
Y: Increased spirituality
Z: Understanding of life after death of the body.

AP provides the individual with irrefutable personal evidence that we are immortal. The physical body dies but the consciousness lives forever.
Individuals having even one AP are transformed having a much greater insight into the existence of things beyond the physical.

Fear of death is simply fear of the unknown.

Heaven and Hell

When APing one realizes that one is in control of one's reality as this is more instantaneous.
Concepts of Heaven and Hell came from engaging with alternate realities while APing.
If you are a good personality, you will create a good reality.
If you are an evil personality, you will create an evil reality.

Heaven and Hell are in the same 'place' - and are what they are created to be, by the individuals who create them for themselves.

It is always about creating experiences for yourself. You are the designer and participator of the experience.

Lucid Dreaming

Becoming conscious while asleep. Already in the middle of a dream and being able to take control of it and direct it.

Astral Projection

Consciously leaving the body while in an awakened state (not dreaming).

Methods of Astral Projecting

There are myriads of resources on the internet which give various advice on how to achieve this.

The world of lucid dreaming, is one such resource given in the video.

Importantly, most people who have even experienced this once, are forever changed in their whole outlook of what they thought of as 'life' / 'living' and even those skeptical of this would best place that to one side while they investigate the claims and work towards inducing the experience for themselves, first hand.

There are scientists who have done this very thing and believe it to be authentic. They are regarded by many mainstream scientists as 'fringe' because of the subjective nature of the experiences, and the unusual subject (dealing with non physical realities) but within their own studies their approaches have been studiously scientific and they have concluded that there is enough repeat-ability and conformation from others who also experience APing subjectively that the combined similar experiences correlate enough to convince them that there is no reason to doubt the authenticity of alternate realities and their personal and ongoing experiences and study of those experiences within those realities.

My own experience in Out of Body projection is limited to three main incidences. The first two were a surprise and the third was a purposeful effort.

I have not ventured into the Astral Realm and have not fixated on wanting to adventure more outside of my body. As far as I am concerned those 3 experiences were enough to convince me of the validity of alternate realities and more importantly, that I am not the body I am presently occupied within, but am a conscious 'spirit' being who fully expects that when my body finally dies, that won't be the end of me or my experiences.

Knowing that, my primary focus for now, is with this life as a human being, passing on information which can be accepted or rejected by the reader, as they so choose and open to discussion and debate regarding ... well my Members Notes speak plainly to that.

jgh7

Post #11

Post by jgh7 »

William wrote:
jgh7 wrote:]The fact that there is no solid scientific backing leads me to be skeptical.
Do you apply the same skepticism for you own beliefs?
No, my beliefs are based on faith. If your beliefs in AP were based mostly on faith, then I would not apply skepticism from a purely scientific perspective. But according to what you're telling me, AP can be based on reliable repeatable provable knowledge should one master it. Therefore my scientific provability expectations for it are set much higher.
William wrote:
Excuse my 1st grade understanding of the subject, but my idea is to get someone who has mastered it and put them in a room. Have them astral project and return and see if they can tell you what's in the room next to them. If this is reliably done, then boom the proof is in the pudding.
Google 'Bi location'. Apparently this type of testing has been done but one cannot tell if it is the case or not as the science itself is not mainstream or published. Why not? Perhaps because people are content with their 1st grade status on the subject for one. Other reasons may include such things as funding priorities and general interest in such things. The secular world isn't all that interested in the subject and various religions have their views on it and some even warn people not to do it.
I googled bi location. It says it has something to do with an individual object being located in to places at once. This has nothing to do with my proposed experiment. As far as funding goes, I imagine it would be extremely cheap to place a guy in a room and have him tell you what's in another room via his ability to astral project. The secular world would be extremely interested in this. There is a huge group of people interested in psychic related phenomena. If proper proof was gathered for AP, there would be an explosion of interest.
William wrote:
Now if it can't be mastered to the point of someone being able to voluntarily do it, then that's understandable. But if it can, then what's the excuse for no scientific backing? The tests to prove it shouldn't be hard and should be quite convincing should one successfully do them.
While I certainly appreciate your view here, the point of the thread is for the individual to acquire their own evidence rather than even rely on what they are told by those like myself or by the scientific community about this.

To stress the point re your argument.

What if secular science did take an active investigative interest in this and develop ways in which to test it, and in doing so gained irrefutable evidence that this was a genuine thing?

What would you personally think about it?
How would it change your outlook on life and your current beliefs?
How do you think that the knowledge would effect the human population?
I would personally take it much more seriously, my outlook on life and my beliefs could be drastically altered, and the knowledge could either affect the human population in an extremely good or bad way (point being that it would be an extreme effect imo).

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14192
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 912 times
Been thanked: 1644 times
Contact:

Post #12

Post by William »

[Replying to post 11 by jgh7]
No, my beliefs are based on faith. If your beliefs in AP were based mostly on faith, then I would not apply skepticism from a purely scientific perspective. But according to what you're telling me, AP can be based on reliable repeatable provable knowledge should one master it. Therefore my scientific provability expectations for it are set much higher.
That's fair enough. Faith is just faith, after-all.

Science would only apply if you made claims about your faith which could be substantiated or not, through scientific process. One can of course be skeptical about faith or what one puts their faith into, so skepticism isn't necessarily just about what can be scientifically probed.
I googled bi location. It says it has something to do with an individual object being located in to places at once. This has nothing to do with my proposed experiment.
Yep. My bad.

Google 'Remote Viewing'. Perhaps 'cold war' as well.
As far as funding goes, I imagine it would be extremely cheap to place a guy in a room and have him tell you what's in another room via his ability to astral project.
I would say that the science would have to be a lot more complex than that. Such a thing - even verified, wouldn't amount to evidence which would cause much of a ripple in the world.
So why isn't this done? Or has/is it been done, but those doing it are not secular scientists? Did you follow those links I gave?
The secular world would be extremely interested in this.
The secular world is very apparently not interested in it at all, or it would be studied and debunked or verified, and people would be actively doing it and talking about it.
As it stands, those who are, are a minority which are considered fringe or worse, depending on who is doing the considering.
There is a huge group of people interested in psychic related phenomena. .
Not in the secular world. The group interested are those participating in AP. Most understand it to be natural phenomena, although some still have the notion of psychic and supernatural and do regard alternate realities as 'supernatural'. That gets down to the individuals interpretation of their own experiences.
I would personally take it much more seriously, my outlook on life and my beliefs could be drastically altered, and the knowledge could either affect the human population in an extremely good or bad way (point being that it would be an extreme effect imo).
I think you are correct in that. In a way you do indeed take it seriously in regard to your own faith in such things as the afterlife and beliefs about heaven - if indeed you are the kind of Christian who believes in such things. That is because those exploring the Astral Realm confirm what people are having faith in, but not seeing for themselves.

Considering that the world is focused upon the more mundane for their entertainment and generally like things served to them on a plate rather than do the work necessary, (like being told rather than finding out for themselves) I think you overestimate how interested the world would generally react to such revelation.

Then again, wonders have been known to happen.

But I do what I can do, and when it comes to getting people to be interested in trying it for themselves - also knowing the personal effort involved in that process, I don't assume that individuals will be jumping at the opportunity of trying it for themselves. it isn't exactly a secret. More to the point it is something generally ignored as irrelevant, or feared as the unknown.
I just tell of my own experiences and that others can do the same if they want to. How they respond is entirely up to them, but I cannot do it for them, as I am sure you can appreciate.

Mainly there is no risk of embarrassment involved in anyone trying out the techniques and pushing through the fear and uncertainty and learning how to accomplish this. It is something one does in the privacy of their own space, in their own time, in their own way which they feel most compfortable.

I am very interested in you saying that your outlook on life and your beliefs could be drastically altered, if you were to learn to leave your body and explore that alternate state. I would have thought it would simply confirm your faith and the 'drastic' part would be that you would no longer require faith because then you would have knowledge.

Also, could you expand on what you mean when you wrote 'the knowledge could either affect the human population in an extremely good or bad way'.



Thanks.

jgh7

Post #13

Post by jgh7 »

William wrote:
I am very interested in you saying that your outlook on life and your beliefs could be drastically altered, if you were to learn to leave your body and explore that alternate state. I would have thought it would simply confirm your faith and the 'drastic' part would be that you would no longer require faith because then you would have knowledge.
It would not confirm my faith, it would likely leave it shaken. AP in the most basic sense of leaving ones body to see other places could possibly be spun to be a gift of the Holy Spirit in accordance with Christianity. But I'm not going to kid myself. AP comes from new age spirituality, and the deeper one goes down that rabbit hole the more they see how drastically different it is from Christianity. So if AP is proven true, then my faith in Christianity would probably be shaken.
William wrote: Also, could you expand on what you mean when you wrote 'the knowledge could either affect the human population in an extremely good or bad way'.

Thanks.
My point was that it would be a very extreme effect. Society as we know it would dramatically change if AP was a definite skill that was being learned by the masses now. People transcending to other dimensions or traveling across the globe in spirit form... you know society is going to drastically change if this becomes a proven attainable skill that the majority of the population is aware of and capable of harnessing. It's easy to imagine a utopia developing from it. But it's still possibile a dystopia could develop. The main point I stress though is that the change wpuld be dramatic.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21144
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 795 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: Finding evidence through experiment/experience

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:As far as I am concerned ... when my body finally dies, that won't be the end of me or my experiences.
I don't believe we have a soul that survives death because that is not what the bible teaches. Satan's original lie to Eve was that she would not die if she sinned and the way I see it that lie continues in all religions except mine to this very day. I believe someone can find the truth, amongst the thousands and thousands and thousands of religions if they find the religion that doesn't teach we have an immortal soul.

That narrows the search for truth down considerably.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14192
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 912 times
Been thanked: 1644 times
Contact:

Post #15

Post by William »

[Replying to post 13 by jgh7]
It would not confirm my faith, it would likely leave it shaken. AP in the most basic sense of leaving ones body to see other places could possibly be spun to be a gift of the Holy Spirit in accordance with Christianity.
That is definitely a very interesting use of words. What you have essentially said is that people could claim that this is the work of the HG, but they would be deceived.
But I'm not going to kid myself.


Which is to say that you are not of the opinion that AP is something the HG would show you, and that anything you experience would be something created by something other than the HG. What do Abranite class as 'other than' the HG but 'The Devil' and [his] associates?
AP comes from new age spirituality, and the deeper one goes down that rabbit hole the more they see how drastically different it is from Christianity. So if AP is proven true, then my faith in Christianity would probably be shaken.


So there we have it.

You are mistaken about AP. It is older than religion and the most likely reason that all religion exists.
It is true that more and more individuals are being made aware of this, as it isn't something that the ancients understood and so they assigned all sorts of agency to it, including 'GOD' and 'Satan' as chief protagonist and antagonist of the Realms, specifically planet earth - which was also not well understood - but appears to be generally regarded as the Devils turf. by most Abrahamic dogma's.
There should be no reason why any Abramite should not trust their GOD (or the HG) to keep them from harm or from being misled in this world or any other.
So your faith would still be useful in that regard.

therefore there should be no rational reason why you could not - with your GODs blessing - consciously leaving your body and experiencing whatever the HG leads you into. Such could only strengthen one's faith unless what the HS revealed challenged aspects of your faith and thus gave you opportunity to reevaluate some of your beliefs,.

Indeed, the things the people you are referring to as 'new-agers' are experiencing and sharing about, really confirm many Christian beliefs, especially to do with the existence of heaven and hell, angels, demons, etc... all those things specific to Abramite religions and their myriad belief systems.
My point was that it would be a very extreme effect. Society as we know it would dramatically change if AP was a definite skill that was being learned by the masses now. People transcending to other dimensions or traveling across the globe in spirit form... you know society is going to drastically change if this becomes a proven attainable skill that the majority of the population is aware of and capable of harnessing. It's easy to imagine a utopia developing from it. But it's still possibile a dystopia could develop. The main point I stress though is that the change wpuld be dramatic.
Yes, but so what? Why would that bother you, especially if the dramatic change was positive for the world? Why would that 'shake your faith exactly?

I know a lot of Christians preach a doctrine that says the world is going to get worse not better, and for some that belief is one of the foundations of their faith...to be saved from the 'last days' horrors that they believe will inflict the unrighteous left behind.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14192
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 912 times
Been thanked: 1644 times
Contact:

Re: Finding evidence through experiment/experience

Post #16

Post by William »

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]
As far as I am concerned ... when my body finally dies, that won't be the end of me or my experiences.
I don't believe we have a soul that survives death because that is not what the bible teaches.


Well my personal experience is evidence which trumps your faith based beliefs, so knock on my door in the name of Jehovah all you want, I will always take the opportunity to tell a JW that I have experienced OOB and that it is a liberating thing to have happen to anyone.
Satan's original lie to Eve was that she would not die if she sinned and the way I see it that lie continues in all religions except mine to this very day.
So what are you saying then? Satan - not GOD - has caused this to happen for me and I am being deceived?
I would have to say that the story of Eve and temptation cannot be aligned with my own personal experiences as no one came to me and said any such thing or tempted me in any way. There was no intent on my part to even do this thing. I don't even recall ever knowing that this thing had a name even, so ignorant about it that I was at that time. So it was not a 'forbidden fruit' in which Satan was enticing me with and which I partook of. My faith was in GOD at the time anyway, so while the initial event did spook me, that was because it was the unknown I was experiencing, and it did not shake my faith in GODs ability to protect me from Satan. I simply understood it to be something GOD was allowing me to experience.
I believe someone can find the truth, amongst the thousands and thousands and thousands of religions if they find the religion that doesn't teach we have an immortal soul.

That narrows the search for truth down considerably.
I have thought deeply about the beliefs specific to the JW organisation which you espouse in the above.
What it boils down to is that if the belief is true then one can be dead for any amount of time and once reconstituted, one then again experiences being a conscious individual.
Time in that sense doesn't apply so even - for example - if the whole universe goes through to its end - which by some estimates [Ultimate fate of the universe]is as much as 10^{10^{120}} [Timeline of the far future] before you are resurrected, with a body and placed on a 'new earth' which is designed specifically to not have any sin/evil etc in it, from your perspective the time that would take from your death experience to your resurrection experience would be zero, even taking into consideration any possible 'blank' bit that you might retain with this process.

In that regard, the idea of death that the JW org upholds is not different than the idea that one simply moves immediately from the one reality to the next, and even the idea of being on a new earth which is perfection itself is no different than the idea that one is in heaven.

As such, what has been removed is time itself, and in that case one can argue that if JWs are correct that the 'truth' of the matter is when someone dies, they stay dead until GOD raises them from the dead, then OOBE and the Astral Realm must exist outside of time and can be observed and experienced in that regard.

In other words, a JW arguing with me that my understanding of the nature of OOBE is that I am an eternal being because I have experienced actually leaving my body which they say cannot be done according to their own belief systems has to be understood by me to be people arguing that something cannot to happen which I have first hand knowledge can indeed happen. Which truth should I therefore adopt. The one which is belief based or the one which is knowledge based?

My answer has to be the one which is knowledge based is a more reliable truth than the one which is belief based.

Which is specifically why I created this thread. To invite people to try for themselves and in doing so experience and thus confirm that some belief based ideas are true and some are not.

So far, from the atheist bench I have received derision (no surprises there) and from the Abrahamic theist bench I have basically been informed that the devil is deceiving me...also no surprises there.

Both sides are threatened by the idea that if this is indeed real, then this will significantly challenge their current positions on things, and both sides react the same in that regard. They seek to resist the very idea of experiment and experience simply in order to keep such knowledge occulted. Primarily from there own awareness, but also actively discouraging it by demeaning it in their various manners.

How is such reaction supposed to be interpreted any other way than what the facts present to me?

The reader, as usual, can decide for their self.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14192
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 912 times
Been thanked: 1644 times
Contact:

TEDx Talk - resource on the subject of OOBE

Post #17

Post by William »

If we had an out-of-body experience (OBE) what would it bring to our lives? Motivated by her own personal experiences and her research of thousands of individuals who had similar phenomena, Nanci Trivellato, MSc in psychology and consciousness researcher, discusses the possible positive effects of OBEs for personal development and its ripples for society.

Nanci Trivellato, MSc in psychology, is an author, lecturer,and personal development coach who dedicates her career to consciousness research. Nanci is also a charter member of the International Academy of Consciousness and the Institute of Applied Consciousness Technologies.
[yt]NMBNZspmn7I[/yt]

User avatar
Tired of the Nonsense
Site Supporter
Posts: 5680
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:01 pm
Location: USA
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Finding evidence through experiment/experience

Post #18

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

William wrote: [Replying to post 6 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Can you please explain to the reader as to what relevance the link you made in you post has to do with the thread subject?
Things like "astral projection" and mind powers are simply a matter of people playing with themselves.
Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

User avatar
Tired of the Nonsense
Site Supporter
Posts: 5680
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:01 pm
Location: USA
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: TEDx Talk - resource on the subject of OOBE

Post #19

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

William wrote:
If we had an out-of-body experience (OBE) what would it bring to our lives? Motivated by her own personal experiences and her research of thousands of individuals who had similar phenomena, Nanci Trivellato, MSc in psychology and consciousness researcher, discusses the possible positive effects of OBEs for personal development and its ripples for society.

Nanci Trivellato, MSc in psychology, is an author, lecturer,and personal development coach who dedicates her career to consciousness research. Nanci is also a charter member of the International Academy of Consciousness and the Institute of Applied Consciousness Technologies.
[yt]NMBNZspmn7I[/yt]
Wikipedia
Out Of Body Experience
An out-of-body experience (OBE or sometimes OOBE) is an experience that typically involves a sensation of floating outside one's body and, in some cases, the feeling of perceiving one's physical body as if from a place outside one's body (autoscopy).

Neuroscientists and psychologists regard OBEs as dissociative experiences arising from different psychological and neurological factors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience

Out of body experiences can be and have been produced under labratory conditions. Mild electrical stimulation of the The temporoparietal junction causes the individual to undergo out of body experiences.

Temporoparietal junction
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The temporoparietal junction (TPJ) is an area of the brain where the temporal and parietal lobes meet, at the posterior end of the Sylvian fissure. The TPJ incorporates information from the thalamus and the limbic system, as well as from the visual, auditory, and somatosensory systems. The TPJ also integrates information from both the external environment as well as from within the body. The TPJ is responsible for collecting all of this information and then processing it.[1] This area is also known to play a crucial role in self-other distinctions processes and theory of mind (ToM).[2] Furthermore, damage to the TPJ has been implicated in having adverse effects on an individual’s ability to make moral decisions and has been known to produce out-of-body experiences (OBEs).[3] Electromagnetic stimulation of the TPJ can also cause these effects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporoparietal_junction

Image "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14192
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 912 times
Been thanked: 1644 times
Contact:

Post #20

Post by William »

The science you speak of making these declarations as to 'what they consider' is unconvincing to someone who has experienced OOB and cannot be categorically said to be genuinely repeating that which is actually experience by individuals. I myself have read no study case where anything undertaken remotely fits the description of my own experiences to date.

This is principally WHY I counsel the individual to find out for themselves, rather than simply take by faith the word of what neuroscientists and psychologists regard as the truth of the matter.

I am reminded too, that such people who take the word of these professionals may be aping the general attitude/bias of said professionals in their expressions, such as yours in post#6 & #18, which the reader can clearly see is nothing more than condescending thinly veiled attempt at insult. Such individuals sullied by said type of bias are wisely not to be taken seriously by the more astute.

Post Reply