Why would God have favourites?

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marco
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Why would God have favourites?

Post #1

Post by marco »

We are told, puzzlingly:

" Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. " We undestand, too, that God favoured the Israelites. Today we have groups that claim God favours them and they'll be rewarded with the equivalent of divine sweets when the time comes.

We can understand why some nomad tribesman might favour one son over another or might hate a daughter. But why would God show the same despicable tendencies?


Is the answer - as some suggest - to say that "hate" means liking less?
Or that God, being God, can do what he wants?
Or does this indicate that the God of the Bible is modelled on men - and not particularly good men?

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tam
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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #51

Post by tam »

Peace to you Ted,
[Replying to post 48 by ttruscott]

The declaration of HIS love for Jacob and HIS hatred for Esau came well after they were convicted of their crimes and sentence passed.

There has been no conviction or sentencing performed yet. Because the judgement has not yet occurred. That judgement does not occur until after the thousand year reign of Christ. Only after that time, at the resurrection of the dead (which dead could include Esau), are the dead - great and small - resurrected and brought before the judgement seat of God. They are then judged based upon their deeds as recorded in their individual scrolls. Rev 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.



If Esau (or anyone) had already been judged (convicted) and sentenced, then what is he (or anyone) being judged according to, at THIS time?




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #52

Post by bluethread »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 45 by bluethread]

Well of the twelve tribes, only one remains, and they aren't doing so great. I mean there are many many cultures with greater longevities that have given the world considerably more.

So, it does not seems they have fulfilled any kind of divine destiny, and the surviving tribe bears so little resemblance to the originals, one has to wonder; to what are you referring?
So, how is it that one would think them superior? That is the question to which I was responding. Paul does list some advantages, if you would call them that. (Rom. 9:4-5) "Who are Israelites; to whom pertains the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." The first question a rabbi generally asks when one wishes to convert to Judaism is, "Why would you want to do that?"

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Post #53

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 51 by bluethread]

I don't understand.

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Post #54

Post by bluethread »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 51 by bluethread]

I don't understand.
Adonai's people have obligations. There are blessings that go along with those obligations, but, if one does not wish to accept those responsibilities, there are also curses that go along with accepting them. So, unless one is willing to take one's vows seriously, there is no point in taking them at all.

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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #55

Post by marco »

ttruscott wrote:
marco wrote:It would be unthinkable for a judge to declare that he had a favourite.
Those judged for a crime can be exonerated for many crimes but those convicted of a capital crime will be executed. It is the nature of their crimes that separates them in HIS favour, not anything before their crimes or before their conviction which was immediate to their choice of crimes. Of course those who chose never to do crime are highest in HIS favour.

I find it strange that people try to justify troublesome bits in the Bible by redefining ordinary words; hate is not hate, love is not love and here favouritism isn't what we know it is. The definition is: 'The practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another.'

Obviously if we are talking about giving credit where credit is due, there is no problem.


It has been suggested: How odd of God to choose the Jews. And it is.


The witty rejoinder is: But not as odd as those who choose
a Jewish God and spurn the Jews.


In any event divine favouritism is the dark face of the deity.

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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #56

Post by tam »

[Replying to post 54 by marco]

I think, Marco (peace to you), that most of us were going by the definition of favourite, which holds no negative connotations:

- one that is treated or regarded with special favor or liking. That song is my favorite.; especially : a person who is specially loved, trusted, or provided with favors by someone of high rank or authority, The king granted the land to two of his favorites.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/favorite


Peace again to you!

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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #57

Post by marco »

tam wrote:

I think, Marco (peace to you), that most of us were going by the definition of favourite, which holds no negative connotations:



Used adjectivally the word favourite seems to carry no pejorative meaning. Applied as a noun to people it does have a negative connotation. That is why Gray in his poem about the cat drowned in a goldfish bowl wrote that " a favourite has no friends."

When I ask why God would have favourites, it is the negative meaning I am discussing. Of course one may answer that God, being fair to all, does not have favourites.

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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #58

Post by ttruscott »

tam wrote: Peace to you Ted,
[Replying to post 48 by ttruscott]

The declaration of HIS love for Jacob and HIS hatred for Esau came well after they were convicted of their crimes and sentence passed.

There has been no conviction or sentencing performed yet. Because the judgement has not yet occurred.
Yet some are not condemned and some are condemned already, Jn 3:18. Yes, I agree the final execution of the judgement is still to come but 'judgement', ie, condemnation has been passed and they are on death row, convicted but not yet executed.

Peace to you,
Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #59

Post by ttruscott »

marco wrote:and here favouritism isn't what we know it is. The definition is: 'The practice of giving unfair preferential treatment to one person or group at the expense of another.'
...
In any event divine favouritism is the dark face of the deity.
I speak of crime and judgement and you reframe it as favouritism ???

Does the condemned psychopath get any sympathy because a person who committed a non-capital crime has his fine paid and is thereby let free? Apparently so...but one wonders why.

Should the prodigal son be rejected at the edge of his father's property when he returns in sorrow and repentance because his brother has decided to be a bandit and hates the idea of rejoining the family? Should the father demand his outlaw son be pardoned and allowed to continue his banditry because his other wayward son repented?

Who has favouritism for whom, I wonder...
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Why would God have favourites?

Post #60

Post by bluethread »

marco wrote:
tam wrote:

I think, Marco (peace to you), that most of us were going by the definition of favourite, which holds no negative connotations:



Used adjectivally the word favourite seems to carry no pejorative meaning. Applied as a noun to people it does have a negative connotation. That is why Gray in his poem about the cat drowned in a goldfish bowl wrote that " a favourite has no friends."

When I ask why God would have favourites, it is the negative meaning I am discussing. Of course one may answer that God, being fair to all, does not have favourites.
Good quote. Adonai's people are favorites like the fish in the fish bowl.

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