Christians seem to be having faith in the NT authors

[rikuoamero]

A thought has occurred to me and it's something that I just can't ignore.
Instead of believing in Jesus, or having faith in Jesus, what seems to me to be far more likely the truth is that Christians are believing in, or having faith, in the authors of the documents of the New Testament.
Is this really the case? What I see happening is that Christians believe Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, and will cite for example Gospel Matthew or Luke.
Translated, modern Christians believe the anonymous authors of Gospel Luke and Matthew, and assume, though it is not stated in the text, that the authors of Matthew/Luke got their knowledge of a virgin birth from Mary herself.

So question for discussion
Do Christians (tend to) have a faith in the authors of the books of the New Testament, one that strengthens belief in the claims in the texts beyond what ordinary empirical or historical investigations would claim are justified?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by rikuoamero]

That is an absolutely brilliant observation.
Why is it that it took some 2000 years to realize it?

Because you are absolutely right, and we don't even know if the authors are who they claim to be. How do we know they aren't ghost written?

The motive is simple enough: What are the terrestrial applications of Judeo-Christianity?
1. Obey priests/government.
2. Pay taxes.
3. Keep the civil peace.

Boom. Religion need only be a terrestrial man-made construct with your assertion, and all data is fit.

[Divine Insight]

So question for discussion
Do Christians (tend to) have a faith in the authors of the books of the New Testament, one that strengthens belief in the claims in the texts beyond what ordinary empirical or historical investigations would claim are justified?

I've been saying this for decades. It's impossible to place our faith in Jesus since we have absolutely nothing from Jesus. No writings, or anything.

All that exists are the hearsay rumors of the New Testament. Period.

Therefore all we can possibly do is place our faith in the authors of those rumors. That's it. Period.

It's actually impossible to place our faith in Jesus when all we have is hearsay rumors that have been told about the man. We can't even know if the quotes attributed to Jesus were ever spoken by Jesus.

Note that there is a subtle caveat here:

Christians are taught (at least some of us most certainly were) that the Gospels themselves were the inspired word of God. In other words, God supposedly guided and told the authors of the Gospels what to write. And therefore the Gospels are not supposed to be just hearsay rumors, but rather they are supposed to be the inspired, guided, and protected, "Word of God".

This is the idea that Christians are indoctrinated with. This is why Christendom is anxious to indoctrinate young children because it requires a someone naive attitude to accept this without question. Children are extremely vulnerable to accepting theological claims that come from religious authorities and especially from their own parents.

But anyone rational skeptical adult hearing these theological claims isn't likely to buy into such obvious nonsense.

But yes, you are absolutely right. It's impossible to place our faith in Jesus since we have nothing at all that came directly from him. All anyone can do is place their faith in hearsay rumors about Jesus. Or in the theological claim that the Gospels were inspired, guided, and protected by God.

By the way the latter cannot possibly be true. If there were a God who was inspiring, guiding and PROTECTING his earthly doctrines he would have never permitted so many false offshoots being created. (i.e. the continuation of Judaism, Islam, and even false denominations of Christianity). And we know with certainty that all the Christian demoninations cannot simultaneously be true as many of them rebuke each other. JW's, for example, rebuke the Catholic Church as the "Whore of Babylon".

So either Jehovah's Witnesses are false, or Catholicism is false. They can't both be true.

So this pretty much violates any claim that there is a God who PROTECTS his earthly doctrines. So that claim is demonstrably false.

And of course we can use all the Christian demoninations as further examples as well since they all rebuke each other's dogma. So much for any God who is supposedly protecting his scriptures.

[bjs]

[Replying to rikuoamero]

Christians have always said that our faith is based on the teachings of the Apostles, such as the NT.

Orthodox Christians (little “o�) also believe that the NT was inspired by God and the teachings are reliable because of the work of the Holy Spirit. Also, we know about Jesus from the teachings of the Apostles but our faith is in Jesus, not the Apostles.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to rikuoamero]

Christians have always said that our faith is based on the teachings of the Apostles, such as the NT.

Orthodox Christians (little “o�) also believe that the NT was inspired by God and the teachings are reliable because of the work of the Holy Spirit. Also, we know about Jesus from the teachings of the Apostles but our faith is in Jesus, not the Apostles.

How does this Holy Spirit work for those of whom it never visits? Let's say you're trying to have me believe that the "teachings are reliable". Since you say the HS is needed...wouldn't the non-presence of this X-factor mean that the teachings are, by themselves, not credible?
Indeed, if it takes the HS X-factor, why have these writings at all? Are you describing a case where God/Jesus/HS telepathically communicates to (some) people and apparently just "confirms" that these writings are reliable?

[Inigo Montoya]

Like DI, I've been saying this for years. No one actually believes in Jesus and his miraculous deeds directly, because they simply can't do so. No one has had that opportunity for thousands of years. What they actually believe in is what long dead and likely anonymous writers had to say when writing their stories. It has never gotten traction when I point this out, so better luck to you, bud.

To bjs, no. Your faith most certainly IS in the apostles and writings ABOUT Jesus. You have no other source.

[Don McIntosh]

Do Christians (tend to) have a faith in the authors of the books of the New Testament, one that strengthens belief in the claims in the texts beyond what ordinary empirical or historical investigations would claim are justified?

In a sense, yes. The New Testament, like Jesus himself, speaks with a certain authority. But that certainly doesn't mean its claims are not empirically or historically justified.

If you think about it, everyone depends upon authority for their knowledge and understanding – whether it's the authority of logic, of experience, of science, of a prominent intellectual, of a textbook, etc. Without a measure of belief in what cannot be proven, nothing at all can be known.

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to post 7 by Don McIntosh]

What??

Give me a miracle story from 2000 years ago that's empirically justified as having occurred.

[PinSeeker]

I'll answer with a question:

Assuming you are an American, is your "faith" in James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and the other founding fathers themselves because they drafted the United States Constitution? Or is your "faith" in the spirit in which it was written?

[rikuoamero]

I'll answer with a question:

Assuming you are an American, is your "faith" in James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and the other founding fathers themselves because they drafted the United States Constitution? Or is your "faith" in the spirit in which it was written?

It might behoove you to look at my usergroups. Among them is "Son of Eire".
Anyway, let's pretend for a moment I am American. What exactly is your question? You ask "Is my faith in...", list a few people then say "because they drafted the constitution". I'm not sure what the question is. Is it "Do you believe these people drafted the constitution?"? Is it "Do you trust the good intentions of these people because they drafted the constitution?"?
To make it more pertinent, let me substitute some names for your question, see if that helps me understand.
"Is your faith in Michael Collins, James McNeill and John O'Byrne and the other members of the Constitution Committee because they drafted the Constitution of the Irish Free State? Or is your "faith" in the spirit in which it was written?"

Hmmm...no. Still doesn't make it clearer. I don't have any faith in these men. Your question, whatever it is, doesn't seem to apply to me.