Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

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Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #1

Post by William »

I have recently being injecting the idea of afterlife from the perspective of people who have experienced OOBEs and NDEs who for the most part are not Christians and share their experiences in the knowledge that they understand the experience as something which they had a part in creating for themselves.

Now I want to shift that from the non-Christian experiences being shared, to those of Christians who have had the same types of experiences and report back the same types of encounters but who don't always report that they understand their experience(s) to be something of their own creation.

It is my understanding that the experiences are both very similar in nature but also unique to the individual. 'Heavens' and 'hells' are also unique to the individual, but encounters with entities are remarkably similar.
THIS WOMAN DIED TWICE, FIRST WENT TO HELL, THEN EXPERIENCED HEAVEN AND MET JESUS
[yt]HvlWYOvtYRo[/yt]

In the channel description is the claim "100% PROOF THAT CHRISTIANITY IS THE TRUTH " which - if Christians were to do serious study on the subject of the Astral Realm from the testimonies of those who say they have experienced this, would come to understand that what it shows is that life doesn't end at the death of the body, and that Christianity is not the only religion which believes such and nor are Christians the only ones who have these experiences.

For that matter, many non religious individuals have experienced this, and while it does indeed change their whole outlook on life, and they adopt a more spiritual outlook, they do not see any necessity in suddenly coming to the conclusion that Christianity is 'The Truth' or that they have to become Christians because of their experiences.

The key points of this particular personal testimony are;

✪ She had her first NDE while in a coma, (2008) in which she ended up in a 'dark place' which she describes as extremely terrifying and refers to as 'hell' and accompanied by a feeling of dread and loss.

✪ Upon awakening from her coma, she recounted her experience to her loved ones gathered around her, and there was verification in relation to what she experienced with what they experienced in regard to a particular time in her experience to which she was aware of to do with the particular event she was speaking about, which coincided with the doctors notifying the family that she was dying and asking the family to gather and say their final goodbyes.

✪ This was then regarded as a miracle that she came through and recovered and due to being told a particular church group had been praying for her, she eventually joined that church and became a 'born again' Christian.

✪ In 2011 she fell sick again and was placed into a coma. She experienced an OOBE and this time it was different. She was floating above her body -looking down at it in the hospital bed. She then experienced a male entity join her and the entity was 'as bright as the sun' only looking at him didn't hurt her eyes.

✪ She experience a profound feeling of pure love from this entity - a love she has never felt from anyone in her whole experience, even from her family or parents... she describes the love was for her and was so strong and powerful and she just knew this entity loved her and this also gave her a feeling of being totally safe and protected and at peace.

✪ She says that there was telepathic communication between her and the entity but that she cannot remember what was said to her and she believes that the entity was Jesus himself.

✪ She comments that she is aware of other testimonies from others who have experienced similar encounters with this alternate reality. She also says she believes that she experienced 'a section of hell' rather then 'the whole of hell'. She says the same in regard to her second experience - that she was 'in a part of heaven' but did not see 'all of heaven'.

✪ She ends her testimony stating that 'we don't just die but go somewhere else and that hell is real, heaven is real and Jesus is real.

Now obviously she makes certain assumptions which are connected to her beliefs and these should be taken in that context. Her parting comments generally show what motivates a lot of Christians in relation to their beliefs.

Point being, as anyone can see through a bit of investigating into such stories will begin to see clearly that there is more than meets the eye as the pieces all fit together, re all such stories of such type experiences. Stories which not only are not going to go away or be so easily ignored/swept under the carpet - but will continue to grow in number as more people having them, share them with the world.



Questions for those who are Judaist, Christian or Muslim, are;

1: To what degree do you believe that these experiences are indicative of truth and need to regarded as genuine?

2: In relation to other faiths, where people encounter similar experiences, how does that stand in relation to your own faith in your own particular beliefs re the group/denomination you invest in?

3: In relation to those who are of no particular faith and have similar - life changing experiences, (these ones often become more spiritual but not necessarily develop religious beliefs) how does that stand in relation to your own faith in your own particular beliefs re the group/denomination you invest in?

Thanks.

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Re: My own OOBEs - a witness of personal experience...

Post #41

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:
In general terms the experience is referred to as 'sleep paralysis


So the main point of sharing these experiences is to acknowledge that I understand the reason Christians (as JW is doing) argue that all forms of NDEs are 'tricks of demons' but that this belief is debatable.
Emphasis MINE

Well I don't know were you got the idea that we believe ALL such experiences are demonic in origin, that is certainly not my belief as one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

Image

There could be a number of physiological or psychological explanations. Some have theorized that oxygen depleted brains at the point of death may hallucinate, I don't know enough about the subject to say either way, I would say that if a person believes they are speaking to unseen beings or hearing voices they should probably seek help from a healthcare professional. Demonic influence is, I believe, just ONE of several possible explanations.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS




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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:16 am, edited 9 times in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #42

Post by William »

[Replying to post 39 by JehovahsWitness]
Thank you for taking the time to post a reply but I can't seem to see an answer to my question.. maybe I expressed myself badly, what I meant to ask is

- If the spirits are not equal, then logically there is a Supreme Most High One, would you not agree?
I will assume you wish to take the reader step by step through a series of logical points in order to try and reach some kind of conclusion which supports your own beliefs about this subject, as you are not yet addressing the points I have already made...

My reply;
The argument you presented was that there are evil beings. You also argue that their are good beings. In this, 'the spirits are not equal'. Is this not what you were referring to?
...was to seek clarity as to what you mean by 'the spirits are not equal' in relation to the idea of a 'Supreme Most High One'.

In relation to my own developing theology, there is only One Being, from which all other beings derive FROM.

That One Being I refer to as "The First Source."

As I understand it, what Christians refer to as the 'Supreme Most High One' would be the Universal Entity, who is an aspect of The First Source Consciousness and is directly responsible for the creation of this particular universe.

In relation to that, there is a hierarchical structure embedded into the order of individuate consciousness FROM the UE specific. These are aspects of the UE, and range throughout the whole spectrum of accompanying expression/behavior, and are clearly evident in the nature of the universe, or from our localized perspective, the nature of the Planet.

I am of course very happy to continue debating the Christian perspective related to all this...it would appear that the general argument from Christians is similar in context to this;

What does the Bible say about an out of body experience / astral projection?

as you seem to be offering the same arguments, which I have briefly responded to.

Would you like to get into this in more depth?

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #43

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote:
I will assume you wish to take the reader step by step through a series of logical points...
My question was not to "the readers" it was to you, is that a problem? Are you adverse to the use of logic in debate?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: My own OOBEs - a witness of personal experience...

Post #44

Post by William »

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]
Well I don't know were you got the idea that we believe ALL such experiences are demonic in origin, that is certainly not my belief as one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. There could be a number of physiological or psychological explanations. Some have theorized that oxygen depleted brains at the point of death may hallucinate, I don't know enough about the subject to say either way, I would say that if a person believes they are speaking to unseen beings or hearing voices they should pro ably seek help from a healthcare professional. Demonic influence is, I believe, just ONE of several possible explanations.
The other explanations are of course related to materialism - the secular world view perspective which seeks to eliminate such superstition as 'demonic influence' as well as alternate realities being actually real, so if you are in two minds about this, perhaps further debate may help uncover where your beliefs actually sit?

Certainly it is apparent that you do not know enough about the subject to say either way, so perhaps entering debate about the subject is a premature act on your part?

As I said, I am happy to debate the subject with Christians such as yourself who not only believe what you do, but are happy enough to express those beliefs into the world.

Are you willing to withdraw your comments already made in this thread as being something more of opinion than factual, or do you wish to proceed?

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #45

Post by William »

[Replying to post 43 by JehovahsWitness]
My question was not to "the readers" it was to you, is that a problem?
I acknowledge the fact that the readers exist.
Are you adverse to the use of logic in debate?
No. I am also aware that the readers should understand that I am using logic. Why are you degrading this to personal comments about me and my - in your opinion - being 'adverse to the use of logic in debate'? Please focus on the debate at hand. If you cannot, then please withdraw.

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #46

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 45 by William]

Okay so how logically would you answer the question. It's a simple one and entirely logical in view of your previous comments.
- If the spirits are not equal, why then logically there is a Supreme Most High One, no?
You posted a reply but from what I can see you didn't actually answer the question.

I will rephrase my question about logic so as to avoid offense. You are correct I am attempting to use logic to build a basis for reasonjng on the topic, do you personally believe that such a logic based approach is appropriate/ useful/ constructive in dealing with this suject matter?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #47

Post by William »

[Replying to post 46 by JehovahsWitness]

I answered your question in post 42. Do you require more clarification?

In what way does your argument (such as it is so far) demonstrate that your belief that - shall we say 'anything not able to be explained through materialism' is therefore ..."demons PRETENDING"?

eta;

I see you have edited your post to add:
You are correct I am attempting to use logic to build a basis for reasonjng on the topic, do you personally believe that such a logic based approach is appropriate in dealing with such a topic?
I understand logic can be applied to any topic, and is appropriate to this one as well.
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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #48

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: I understand logic can be applied to any topic, and is appropriate to this one as well.
Excellent, thank you.
William wrote: [Replying to post 46 by JehovahsWitness]

I answered your question in post 42. Do you require more clarification?

Yes I do require more clarification.

Do you believe it is logically conceivable that if sprits are not equal there could exist a SUPREME spirit more powerful than the others?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #49

Post by William »

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]
Yes I do require more clarification.

Do you believe it is logically conceivable that if sprits are not equal there could exist a SUPREME spirit more powerful than the others?
The UE in wholeness is more powerful than it's 'parts'...that is what you are claiming yes? Can a hand say to an eye, "I am better than you because I can do things without you?"

The UE is that which does not see its 'parts' as 'more' or 'less' than each other. The UE see its parts as equal to its wholeness.

That is logical, yes?

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Re: Near Death Experiences of Christians and others.

Post #50

Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: [Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]
Yes I do require more clarification.

Do you believe it is logically conceivable that if sprits are not equal there could exist a SUPREME spirit more powerful than the others?
The UE in wholeness is more powerful than it's 'parts'...that is what you are claiming yes? Can a hand say to an eye, "I am better than you because I can do things without you?"

The UE is that which does not see its 'parts' as 'more' or 'less' than each other. The UE see its parts as equal to its wholeness.

That is logical, yes?
Interesting questions, do you feel inclined to answer mine?

Do you believe it is logically conceivable that if sprits are not equal there could exist a SUPREME spirit more powerful than the others?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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