For Biblical Literalists: the New Kingdom

[steveb1]

Question for those who believe that, after the end-times apocalypse, God, in Christ, will establish a new and perfect, literal, Kingdom of God on earth, from which all sin, injustice, disease and death have been purged and forever disallowed. The souls of the Saved will be rejoined to their former bodies - bodies which have undergone a rebirth into the form of, and with the preternatural gifts of, Adam. Such are said to be deathless, flawlessly healthy "resurrection bodies" immortal, and dwelling in a heaven that has been brought to earth and to an earth that has been, in effect, been raised to heavenly status.

For those who believe in the literal fulfillment of this scenario, what do you think it will look like? Will there be reproduction and sex? Will there be earthly desires at all? If not, why would we have bodies at all?
Will the Saved eat, drink, excrete?
If they no longer age and die, one would imagine that there would be no need for reproduction and hence no need for sex - and, depending on the "spirituality" of the resurrection body - perhaps no need to eat or drink at all.

Will the earth's topography - its oceans, streams, mountains and valleys - be transformed so that no tsunamis, earthquakes, crop viruses (will people even be keeping crops?), drought, natural famine, natural fires, volcanoes, etc., ever occur?

What about the non-human animals? Will the lion really lie down with the lamb? If so, what will the lion eat, and what will happen to his dentation, which is purposed toward predatory flesh-eating? What about mammalian and insect "pests", and the diseases they carry? Will they not survive the fires of the apocalypse, or will they, too, be reborn, but in a non-harmful state...?

Any ideas about what the remade earth might look like and behave would make interesting theological reading.

[Tcg]

Maybe we're confusing immortal with eternal.

Can you explain what ou meant when you said the above? You seem to be implying that immortal with eternal are different things.

If you think that they different, then why not state your case. Simply provide evidence to support your thought, assuming it is your thought, rather than stretching the discussion out.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 26 by JehovahsWitness]

"steveb1 wrote:


Maybe we're confusing immortal with eternal.

Can you explain what ou meant when you said the above? You seem to be implying that immortal with eternal are different things."

Steveb1 REPLY:

They are two different things, and I explained why:

Only God is eternal because God is forever and was never born and can never die.

Human beings are mortal because they die.

The righteous saved in the re-structured earth will not die. Therefore they will be immortal. But not eternal, because unlike God, they were created in time, and they are subject to death unless an outside factor (God) grants them immortality.

Immortality can only be a property of a mortal who has died and entered a new life/world wherein s/he will never die; or... a deity could conceivably grant immortality to a human being before s/he dies.
But eternity - which does not mean immortality - means to have always existed and to always exist, as only God can claim.

That is why God is not immortal: he was never a mortal being who was granted immortality, and God can never die.
And that is why only creatures can be immortal - because for whatever reason, they have passed into a deathless - and therefore an immortal - state.

[steveb1]

Maybe we're confusing immortal with eternal.

Can you explain what ou meant when you said the above? You seem to be implying that immortal with eternal are different things.

If you think that they different, then why not state your case. Simply provide evidence to support your thought, assuming it is your thought, rather than stretching the discussion out.

Yes, that is exactly what I just asked of JW, explaining to him the difference 'twixt eternity (which is God's alone) and immortality (which is only granted to formerly mortal creatures).

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 28 by myth-one.com]

Well I wasn't talking about the kingdom of God at all, I was talking about the paradise earth and the humans that will live on it.

Hope that clears that point up.

JW

All humans who ever lived will be made alive again, or resurrected. All includes both believers and nonbelievers! However, all will not be resurrected at the same time.

Jesus was resurrected first. The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which dead Christians will be resurrected.

This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth.

Dead Christians will be born again as everlasting spiritual beings into the kingdom of God.

Christians who are alive at the second coming will be born again instantly as spirits.

These newly born children of God will then spend the millennium with Jesus.

After the 1000 years are up, all dead nonbelievers will be resurrected as mortal humans. All nonbelievers (those resurrected and those living on the earth at that time) will then face judgment.

After judgment, those whose names are written in the book of Life will be born again of the Spirit as spirits into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and quickly perish -- being human.

When the last living human is either born again or destroyed in the lake of fire, the age of man is over.

There is no longer any purpose or cause for humans to exist. New spiritual beings have been produced through a two-stem process to rule over and maintain the earth.

They were born into the physical world first as humans, then born again into the spiritual world of God if they chose to do so.

Thus. there are no more humans.

=============================================

Who are these "humans" living in paradise on the new earth which you guys are debating about?

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 29 by JehovahsWitness]

So when are you going to make up your mind re: the differences I explained between eternity and immortality? Since you didn't see, or ignored, my post on this subject, I am reposting it here:

Steveb1 REPLY:

They are two different things, and I explained why:

Only God is eternal because God is forever and was never born and can never die.

Human beings are mortal because they die.

The righteous saved in the re-structured earth will not die. Therefore they will be immortal. But not eternal, because unlike God, they were created in time, and they are subject to death unless an outside factor (God) grants them immortality.

Immortality can only be a property of a mortal who has died and entered a new life/world wherein s/he will never die; or... a deity could conceivably grant immortality to a human being before s/he dies.
But eternity - which does not mean immortality - means to have always existed and to always exist, as only God can claim.

That is why God is not immortal: he was never a mortal being who was granted immortality, and God can never die.
And that is why only creatures can be immortal - because for whatever reason, they have passed into a deathless - and therefore an immortal - state.

So: what do you have to say about this issue?

[JehovahsWitness]

Only God is eternal because God is forever and was never born and can never die.

So are you saying that the word eternal is not having a beginning? If so what is "eternal" life?

[JehovahsWitness]

Human beings are mortal because they die.

So are you saying that the saved will not be humans? If human beings are mortal but the saved will in your opinion be IMmortal, then are you not suggesting that the saved will not be human?

[JehovahsWitness]

...the age of man is over. ...There is no longer any purpose or cause for humans to exist..

Thus. there are no more humans...

So, correct me if I misunderstood, you believe God's ultimate plan to save humans is to kill them all and wipe humanity out entirely?

Isn't that a bit like a doctor proposing tthat he can stop the spread of cancer in a patient's body by .... killing the patient? Wouldn't that simply be admitting the disease cannot be defeated only aided to its ultimately conclusion.

[JehovahsWitness]

That is why God is not immortal.. God can never die. [...] And that is why only creatures can be immortal.

I'm sorry you've lost me here, you are saying God is not immortal but that he can never die? Wouldn't not being subject to death be the very definition of "immortality"?

How can God grant his creatures immortality if He hasn't got it himself? How can he give something he doesn't possess. Isn't that like giving someone 1000 dollars when you're penniless?

[myth-one.com]

...the age of man is over. ...There is no longer any purpose or cause for humans to exist..

Thus. there are no more humans...

So, correct me if I misunderstood, you believe God's ultimate plan to save humans is to kill them all and wipe humanity out entirely?

Humans are designed to die. God created us with that characteristic.

You cannot get around that fact:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

The only way to avoid death is to become something which is no longer human.

That "something" is the only other type of living body -- a spirit.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Natural bodies are mortal, spiritual bodies are immortal.