Where are the tablets of the ten commandments?

[marco]

Careless Moses broke the stone tablets God had inscribed, as one does. Luckily God wasn't too upset and offered to re-write his message provided Moses cut out two stone blocks. Moses says he went up the mountain to see God, as one does, and God duly wrote the commandments out again.


Archaeologists haven't found the divinely inscribed broken first set nor the cave in which the second set are hidden. One would have expected the Inspiring Spirit to have led them to this important divine instruction, but no. Here is Moses telling it as it was:

" At that time the Lord said to me, “Hew two tables of stone like the first, and come up to me on the mountain, and make an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were on the first tables which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.� So I made an ark of acacia wood, and hewed two tables of stone like the first, and went up the mountain with the two tables in my hand. And he wrote on the tables, as at the first writing, the ten commandments "



1. Is this a credible story? Are there details that suggest fiction?


2. Given the tale is true, why has God not disclosed the hiding place of the second set of important instructions?

3. Why did Jesus not give us the information?

[bjs]

Think about your own question for a bit, bjs. You probably already have an answer - no-one knows how to set up a test to prove that a set of given old stone tablets are the originals Moses wrote on.

Yes, that is my point. There is no possible way to demonstrate that specific tablets are the ones from the account in Exodus.

Marco asked three questions:
1. Is this a credible story? Are there details that suggest fiction?
2. Given the tale is true, why has God not disclosed the hiding place of the second set of important instructions?
3. Why did Jesus not give us the information?

The answer to all three questions are the same: Having the tablets would not change anything.

There is no reason to think that the tablets would appear as anything other than stone with words carved in them. Having the tablets would not lend credence to the story. God telling us where the tablets are would be no more useful than having the words carved on the tablet written down in some other fashion. Jesus revealing such information would be of no practical use to us.

The physical stone tablets simply do not matter and having them or not having them changes nothing.

[marco]

Would it matter? If someone had some very old stone tablets then is there anything he could do to convince you (or archeologists in general) that they there we in fact the original 10 commandments described in Exodus?

You are asking several questions wrapped in one. If someone had the original tablets that would be a wonder in men's eyes. There is a cloth in Turin visited by millions of people because it apparently once clothed Christ. A stone with God's writing on it would certainly be a talking point.


If someone had the tablets, he would have nothing to do but collect his fees. If we are discussing a possible hoax or mistake, that's another story. Perhaps God's writing might have traces of radioactivity - who knows? Philologists could examine God's writing for grammatical errors or unusual uses of the subjunctive denied to God.

If tablets were found and somehow identified as the ones Moses had replaced, theists would celebrate the world over and atheists might fall silent. And God might appear in a cloud.

Before Benchwarmer jumps in about lethal touches, I will mention that there is no biblical command against touching the tablets of the 10 commandments.

The Ark containing the two tablets was placed by Solomon in the Holy of Holies, God's habitation. Though priests were allowed in the outer holy place, the Holy of Holies could be entered only by the high priest on the annual Day of Atonement. That would surely suggest that odinary mortals were not allowed near the tablets, far less to touch them.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Careless Moses broke the stone tablets God had inscribed, as one does. Luckily God wasn't too upset and offered to re-write his message provided Moses cut out two stone blocks. Moses says he went up the mountain to see God, as one does, and God duly wrote the commandments out again.


Archaeologists haven't found the divinely inscribed broken first set nor the cave in which the second set are hidden. One would have expected the Inspiring Spirit to have led them to this important divine instruction, but no. Here is Moses telling it as it was:

" At that time the Lord said to me, “Hew two tables of stone like the first, and come up to me on the mountain, and make an ark of wood. And I will write on the tables the words that were on the first tables which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.� So I made an ark of acacia wood, and hewed two tables of stone like the first, and went up the mountain with the two tables in my hand. And he wrote on the tables, as at the first writing, the ten commandments "



1. Is this a credible story? Are there details that suggest fiction?


2. Given the tale is true, why has God not disclosed the hiding place of the second set of important instructions?

3. Why did Jesus not give us the information?

Exodus 32:
[15] And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.
[16] And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.
[17] And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.
[18] And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.
[19] And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

Moses purposely threw down the original tablets, written by the hand of God, and broke them. Or maybe it was just an accident.

[marco]

Moses purposely threw down the original tablets, written by the hand of God, and broke them. Or maybe it was just an accident.

And breaking them he cried, presumably: "I have broken the tablets that the Lord, even God, hath made from common stone and on them hath written words even in his own handwriting."


That a human had been given a stone prescription from God and he simply threw the artefacts down in temper, then trotted off and asked God for a duplicate, surely strains the lightest intelligence. The God depicted here, far inferior to Zeus, constrained to scrape messages on stone, surely merits only an audience of bearded brutes and their spitting camels. It is wonderful that people have raised Moses above human contempt and read sense into the senseless. Such a work of art is man.
But then Michelangelo also worked with flawed stone and produced David. Fortunately Moses wasn't around to break it.

[bjs]

If tablets were found and somehow identified as the ones Moses had replaced, theists would celebrate the world over and atheists might fall silent.

While I appreciate that you recognize that I am asking a complex question, you seem to have skipped over the most basic part of it: How would we identify the genuine artifact?

It seems like an impossible task. Sure we could say that perhaps God's writing might have traces of radioactivity, or might glow green, or might provide a way for stone tablets to be plunged directly into a USB port, or any other “perhaps� we want to name. But they are no more likely (and to me seem far less likely) than saying that the stone tablets would look exactly like really old stone tablets.

Without some clear way of identifying the originals, why would theists celebrate or atheists fall silent? At most theists would be mildly interested and atheists would hand way the whole thing away.

Unless you can provide someone way of establishing the authenticity any ancient tablets that we discover, then the answer to all the questions in the opening post remains: It would not make any difference.

[polonius]

Think about your own question for a bit, bjs. You probably already have an answer - no-one knows how to set up a test to prove that a set of given old stone tablets are the originals Moses wrote on.

Yes, that is my point. There is no possible way to demonstrate that specific tablets are the ones from the account in Exodus.

Marco asked three questions:
1. Is this a credible story? Are there details that suggest fiction?
2. Given the tale is true, why has God not disclosed the hiding place of the second set of important instructions?
3. Why did Jesus not give us the information?

The answer to all three questions are the same: Having the tablets would not change anything.

There is no reason to think that the tablets would appear as anything other than stone with words carved in them. Having the tablets would not lend credence to the story. God telling us where the tablets are would be no more useful than having the words carved on the tablet written down in some other fashion. Jesus revealing such information would be of no practical use to us.

The physical stone tablets simply do not matter and having them or not having them changes nothing.

RESPONSE: Except that the Ten Commandments are a human story. Apparently the first seven books of the Old Testament were written by the Jewish captives during the Babylonian Captivity.

Does anyone what to do research to verify that?

[marco]

Without some clear way of identifying the originals, why would theists celebrate or atheists fall silent? At most theists would be mildly interested and atheists would hand the whole thing away.

Unless you can provide someone way of establishing the authenticity any ancient tablets that we discover, then the answer to all the questions in the opening post remains: It would not make any difference.

Well we found the Rosetta stone and because it was written in three languages, we got to know hieroglyphs. God of course wasn't involved.


I sometimes feel that atheists paradoxically accord God more reverence than do theists. The God that Moses chums around with is rather third rate; his writing materials pretty basic; his ability to command and impress next to zero. IF tablets designed and inscribed by a deity were found, I should think that SOMEHOW their association with divinity would be clear. This is my expectation of the power of God. However, if the stones had writing on them that could well have been done by somebody called Moses - in other words, if God made no distinguishing feature between his word and that of an ordinary man, I would dismiss them. On the other hand if, like Christ's garment, they were infused with divine power, they would have the miraculous ability in themselves to persuade by whatever miraculous means God chose.

If they appeared in my room tonight, just as I was about to retire, that would ensure that one agnostic at least would speedily cross the divide of faith. No doubt about that!

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Moses purposely threw down the original tablets, written by the hand of God, and broke them. Or maybe it was just an accident.

And breaking them he cried, presumably: "I have broken the tablets that the Lord, even God, hath made from common stone and on them hath written words even in his own handwriting."


That a human had been given a stone prescription from God and he simply threw the artefacts down in temper, then trotted off and asked God for a duplicate, surely strains the lightest intelligence. The God depicted here, far inferior to Zeus, constrained to scrape messages on stone, surely merits only an audience of bearded brutes and their spitting camels. It is wonderful that people have raised Moses above human contempt and read sense into the senseless. Such a work of art is man.
But then Michelangelo also worked with flawed stone and produced David. Fortunately Moses wasn't around to break it.

Exodus 32:
[26] Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
[27] And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
[28] And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Such a hissyfit Moses threw. But God Himself in no stranger to thowing hissyfits.

1Sam.6:
[19] And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

And then of course there is that bit about God drowning eveything on earth, including all of the animals, because He was angry at humans. Some might consider that just a bit of an over reaction.

As a reward for killing three thousand men, God agreed to show Moses His butt.

Exodus 33:
[21] And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
[22] And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
[23] And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

"Strains the lightest intelligence," you say! You make a mockery of the word "intelligence," sir.

[marco]

Exodus 33:
[21] And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
[22] And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
[23] And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

"Strains the lightest intelligence," you say! You make a mockery of the word "intelligence," sir.

Yes, this is on a much lower intellectual level than, say, Arachne being changed into a spider. In Greek mythology Zeus couldn't be seen by humans, not even his back parts, though in multiple disguises he did more than present himself. Poor Semele insisted on seeing the real Zeus and wasn't as fortunate as Moses.

It was not my intention to mock the concept of intelligence; rather to highlight the traumas to which it is exposed in the pages of the OT. Anyway, we were searching for the missing tablets but the way the conversation is going would suggest that the tablets are fictional, and therefore not to be found. I appreciate that you didn't have to express an opinion to illustrate fiction; it sufficed only to quote from the inspired source. Amazing.

[bluethread]

If someone had the original tablets that would be a wonder in men's eyes. There is a cloth in Turin visited by millions of people because it apparently once clothed Christ. A stone with God's writing on it would certainly be a talking point.

Yes, and be treated as an idol, as is the SoT.

atheists might fall silent

Highly unlikely.