Hypothesis for consciousness apart from the physical body

[SeaPriestess]

Is there one?

Why not?

I would think some radical off the wall brainiac genius scientist of some sort would at least come up with something.

Anyone?

[SeaPriestess]

[Replying to post 59 by Divine Insight]

I thought there were some evidences of this.

[William]

[Replying to post 59 by Divine Insight]

I thought there were some evidences of this.

What DI is saying is that people who claim that they can OOBE at will, should be able to be used in a scientific setting to somehow demonstrate it is true.

He gives an example;

If that's true then they should be able to have an OOBE and obtain information from an event far removed from their physical body, then return and report those observations.

From my own experience - which is limited to a couple of times - there appeared to be a type of merging of realities - this one and another - like superimposed together.

Most OOBEs I have read about, the individuals consciousness leaves this reality and goes to what is known as the Astral Reality, meet with entities, explore that realm etc.

The argument DI gives sounds like it has a lot of merit until one understands that it is based upon an overall ignorance of the subject.

However, there are those peddling the idea of learning to OOBE in relation to visiting others on the planet and corroborating with each other re the event.
For example, in the thread "Finding evidence through experiment/experience. Looking into the science of Astral Projection", the opening post examines the youtube video;
[yt]8VB6h_bWR3Y[/yt]

Points from that post;
1: By being able to project your consciousness outside of your body, you can witness things such as the earth being a sphere, or friends on the other side of the world and what they are doing.

3: While APing one retains a high level of waking consciousness during the experience and one can remember that experience in every detail once you return to the physical body.

9: Controlled OBEs are willful...deliberately induced by the individual.

If this is true, one who has learned to do this should be able to do what DI claims.

The phrase for this is "Remote Viewing"

One has to take into consideration any and all possible reason why mainstream science would be hesitant or unable to set up experiments which could yield information that could help the case of any who claim to be able to do this and even more importantly, further the general populations understanding of consciousness through this type of scientific research.

The way it is expressed by DI, one gets the impression it is just a matter of popping down to ones local corner science lab, and 'bingo!' In the real world though, things don't work in that way.

One may find a scientist who is interested, and who works in a lab which has the type of equipment suitable for such experiments, but he would have to do experiments in his own time and perhaps not even be able to use the equipment if he cannot get permission to do so.
Even if he got the permission and the backing of those who employ him, the scientist may get results but the results might be inconclusive.

For example, an experiment might simply be for the claimant to OOBE, find room 21, view the note on the table which tells him to find person A in another building across town, and come back and describe the details of the person and the room the person was in.

Lets say the claimant does this, but reports things about the room which are pretty similar but not exact.

Perhaps the person in the room was holding a red bag but the claimant tells the scientist that the bag the person was holding, was green.

This automatically leads to other assumptions, so even if such experiments might show the probability that consciousness might not be emergent of the brain, it also doesn't show that what the claimant was experiencing is this physical universe, but some alternate one which is almost exactly the same but has anomalies. Such experiments would have to be done hundreds and hundreds of times and would have to be far more thorough than these clowns did with their experiments.

Even if enough experiments were done that such could be introduced to the larger world - there are the usual administration hurdles to get over, and even if these eventually give the green light, there is the problem of the public in general, and how they would most likely react to the information.

Given the majority of the public are Christians and the belief in deceptive demons is one of the most shared accepted doctrines throughout all the Christian sects, these folk are not going to sit silently watching their taxes being soaked up in the study of what they believe in as being 'of the occult' and demonic deception.

Then there is the fact as to what science is generally used for, which is creating weapons of war, production of chemical poisons, and plastic, and not to forget the practice of planned_obsolescence to name a few of the more insidious and lucrative aspects of industrialism and domination which scientists are happy enough to give their lifetime and skills toward. There is not time or money to dedicate to any serious study of alternate experience, and the general reaction is to consign such to 'products of the brain'. Full stop. Materialism as it presently manifests would stand to lose billions and the hold the powerful materialists have on the population would be threatened. Great reasons for not investing serious study into such things, even if such type experiences are common enough that science could be applied.

The military might have better use of such (remote viewing and the cold war) but even if they did or do, this is not knowledge which is open to the public and can easily be hidden from the public's awareness simply by invoking 'national security'.

That is the world we are dealing with here.

So the individual has these two significant giants which together act as inhibitors and antagonists. From the one sector we have the accusation of 'Demonic influences' and from the other we have the accusation that one has 'forgotten to take one's meds' and other slurs to that affect.

One can even see the evidence of this type of reaction from the scientism sector of this message board community.
When I created the thread "Finding evidence through experiment/experience. Looking into the science of Astral Projection" I did so in the "Science and Religion
Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues" forum.

Immediately there was protest. One would have thought I had entered a holy temple and tried to set up shop, and the ensuring outburst of complaint from the offended had the thread removed to the "Random Ramblings" section, without further ado. As an analogy, I basically was whipped out of that 'temple' by the adherents of scientism.

Yet here we are, some weeks later, in the same forum discussing that very subject. "GOD loves a trier", as the saying goes.

[Divine Insight]

The argument DI gives sounds like it has a lot of merit until one understands that it is based upon an overall ignorance of the subject.

I would beg to differ with you on this point. This would not be due to my ignorance of the subject, but rather it would be a results of the ignorance of many OOBE reports that have been given.

In fact, you had just posted a video where a man claims to have been lifted out of his body and looked down to see his own body badly injured. He also reported having had the OOBE experience of walking around inside a hospital viewing people on earth where his actual physical body was lying in a bed unable to walk.

So if you claim that it is "ignorance of the OOBE subject" to make these sorts of claims, then you would need to discount the very video of an OOBE that you yourself had posted.

You'll need to go back through every OOBE report you have ever seen and make certain that none of those claim to have had OOBE experiences that including being out of their body yet STILL IN THIS WORLD.

So don't be blaming an ignorance of the OOBE subject on me, when countless OOBE reports make these very claims.

Obviously, if you want to make the claim that OOBE experiences can only take place in another "non-earthly realm", then that's fine. You can certainly demand that only OOBE's that fit this criteria should be considered to be valid.

But if you do that, then you would need to discount many OOBE experiences that have been reported. Including any that claim the person having the OOBE was hovering above their own body looking down on it. That would be them having an OOBE experience in THIS WORLD that is simply viewing this world from a different physical location from where their body is physically located.

So before you can accuse me of being "ignorant of the OOBE subject" you need to make this proclamation in general and start renouncing all OOBE's that report having visions of activities going on in THIS WORLD from a different perspective than their physical body could have.

And now you have one whale of a lot of OOBE reports to renounce as being fakes, including starting with one that you yourself had posted.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 49 by myth-one.com]
Well, our physical body requires sleep so our consciousness gets turned off to where we don't remember things. Even though you don't remember anything and time stood still for you during the procedure, you still had consciousness in the fact it was "alive" as opposed to brain "dead".

What is the definition of a live conscious.

Or a "dead" conscious for that matter.

My body was still alive, but I was never conscious of anything physical or spiritual during that "passage of time."

The nurse left the room, immediately returned and there existed two hours which I have never been conscious off.

If consciousness can be turned on and off, doesn't that fact tie it to the physical world?

In the case I presented, my consciousness was physically switched off by sedatives.

The only reason I thought time might have passed was the nurse's comments.