Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

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marco
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Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #1

Post by marco »

If it were possible to invite one of the old prophets into our house, have him deloused and given a long bath, what could he tell us, assuming conversation were possible? Perhaps we could surprise him by flicking on a light and announcing "Let there be light!"


I am often told to read my OT and learn from it. Perhaps I will be advised to beat children lest they get spoiled; kill witches and homosexuals; or on the positive side I might hope and trust in the Lord, live frugally and treat others well.

What do the prophets tell us we don't already know? Are they redundant?

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #11

Post by Divine Insight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 8 by Divine Insight]


That's another, albeit related question that was not asked in the OP. I might go over to the theology forum and post my thoughts on finding truth within a supernatural context over there. I believe the topic for discussion here was:

What do the prophets tell us we don't already know? Are they redundant?


JW
But we already knew that men have a tendency to make up Gods. So there's nothing there that we didn't already know.

If they don't have any evidence for the actual existence of their specific God then they aren't offing anything new or different.

Also how is this any different from fiction writers who make up stories? About the only difference is that the fiction writers will probably admit that the stories they write are entirely fabricated. Other than this there is no difference.
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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #12

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 4 by showme]
Hind sight should give you a view into what the prophets were talking about, but according to Revelation 9:21, the wicked will still not see.
Gotta love this attitude of "This is prophecy and since you don't believe...why this MUST mean you're wicked!"
Sorry showme, but I stopped stealing candy from orphans and kicking puppies (I jest) a long long time ago. Have you thought about the possibility that maybe, just maybe the reason I and others don't believe your prophecies isn't because we're "wicked"...but because your prophecies just are not clear at all, make no sense, do not foretell the future?
Or did you accept them as prophecies so that you wouldn't be called wicked, much like a man these days might accept modern feminism so as to not be called sexist?
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Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #13

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 10 by Elijah John]
How can one walk humbly with God if one does not believe in Him?
Is it being humble, if one believes in God?
I think not. I think of it as an abdication of personal responsibility. For one to walk with God, means to obey God, to follow his directives, no matter how bloody they might be. Look at Honest Abe, who is praised by God for being willing to obey a command to kill his son; this is THE patriarch, the model for which other patriarchs were measured against.
There are Muslim suicide bombers today who walk humbly with God. Why...they're willing to literally sacrifice their lives to him (and those of the kaffar).
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

Can you prove that the God YHWH was reavaled as such by name prior to that done by means of the Prophets of the Hebrews patriarchy?
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #15

Post by rikuoamero »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 11 by Divine Insight]

Can you prove that the God YHWH was reavaled as such by name prior to that done by means of the Prophets of the Hebrews patriarchy?
This reads to me like asking "Was this character named as Name X before the people who first gave him the Name X?"
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #16

Post by marco »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by marco]

Well we would never have known the Divine Name YHWH had it not been revealed through Moses and the biblical Prophtes. That's one thing.
God might have revealed it to one of the saintlier Popes or whispered it to somebody in Samoa or Siberia. You underestimate God's abilities, JW. In any case, he forgot to tell us how to pronounce it.

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #17

Post by marco »

Divine Insight wrote:
So the prophets aren't any better than philosophers and poets. And in many cases, the philosophers and poets actually might have more intelligent things to say.

This is very true, DI. We learn a great deal from folk like Cicero or Seneca but they didn't pretend to be prophets. I suppose you could extract more from a nursery rhyme than from some prophetic incantations.

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #18

Post by marco »

Elijah John wrote:

To love kindness, do justice and walk humbly with thy God. That last part a lesson lost on many Christians, and certainly on many or most atheists.

Most of us were brought up knowing the first two; some of us used to observe the last until we checked to see who was there.
Elijah John wrote:
How can one walk humbly with God if one does not believe in Him?
A better question is: How can you walk with somebody who's not there? You can be as humble as you like but it takes great imagination to have God walk with you.
Elijah John wrote:

Each prophet was sent to a spedific time and place, and to deliver God's message in that particular context.

They were sent at a time when people were receptive to gods throwing tantrums and making covenants and desiring genitalia or creating floods and rainbows or appearing on a hill to talk to some bearded warrior. It all seems so incredibly silly placed beside the discovery of penicillin. And no prophet announced a cure for leprosy. Jesus withheld the secret.

Elijah John wrote:
They seemed to have both timeless and universal messages, and temporal ones of immediate warning and admonition.

Common sense is timeless, EJ.

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

marco wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by marco]

Well we would never have known the Divine Name YHWH had it not been revealed through Moses and the biblical Prophtes. That's one thing.
God might have revealed it to one of the saintlier Popes or whispered it to somebody in Samoa or Siberia.
Maybe I misunderstood the OP:
marco wrote: I am often told to read my OT and learn from it. [...] What do the prophets tell us we don't already know?

Since the "old testament" is a document written and compiled many thousands of years ago, I took this to be asking what was revealed to the OT Prophets that had not previously been disclosed? ie what can we learn from this source that is not information readily available at the time from another source and was unique to those writers. I pointed to the revelation of the Divine Name of the Hebrew God.

Were you in fact asking:
What can we read in the Hebrew bible that we don't already know from reading the Hebrew bible?

or maybe...

What information can we read attributed to the "OT" Prophets was unique to anything past, present or future that may theoretically have been available to anyone whether we have a record of it or not?

In short are you asking ...

"What did the Prophets reveal that could not have been revealed elsewhere whether we can prove it or not?"

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Have we anything to learn from the prophets?

Post #20

Post by JehovahsWitness »

marco wrote:In any case, he forgot to tell us how to pronounce [The Divine Name].
How do you know this? Is this just you expressing a belief based on an assumption or can you prove this was the case?

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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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