Does the book of Hebrews

WPG12 · Post by **WPG12** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:25 am

Destroy faith?

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 KJV

If you give a blind man evidence of what he doesn't see, call it what he hopes for the tell him his life depends on it. You can lead him anywhere you want to.

Jesus didn't come to leave us blind, but to cause the blind to see.

I don't walk by sight, I walk by faith. But I don't walk blindly.
I don't look at the temporal things, but at the eternal things, because I see them.

Belief thinks what it wants to see is right.
Trust, doesn't really know, it trusts that something is true
Hope lives on a prayer that something will happen

Belief , trust, and hope are blind. They can easily go the way you don't want them to.

When your hope is realized, it's no longer hope.

The faith of God is not blind, it sees what is not seen, hears what is not heard. Perceives what is not perceived.
It is the gift of God, understanding given by God, an opening of the eyes which causes men to see what is not seen.

Most would rather walk around blindly, clinging to evidence of what is not seen, but they hope for. This is not faith, it is a destruction of the faith of God.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:59 am

WPG12 wrote: If you give a blind man evidence of what he doesn't see, call it what he hopes for the tell him his life depends on it. You can lead him anywhere you want to.

This seems like a blanket statement used to justify a conclusion rather than a proven premise used to support a conclusion...Are all blind men so easily suggestible and led? Given the scriptural interpretation that our 'blindness' is a spiritual blindness from our enslavement to sin, how does a physical blindness as you describe correlate to spiritual blindness which resists being led?

WPG12 · Post by **WPG12** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:04 am

Why would you think I was talking about physical blindness?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:11 am

WPG12 wrote:
Most would rather walk around blindly, clinging to evidence of what is not seen, but they hope for. This is not faith, it is a destruction of the faith of God.

Should I accept this destruction of my faith in Heb 11:1, a verse that is one of my go to verses in these debates and which has sustained me for years? I think not - you have yet to make your bones.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for is the same as the essence of hope is called faith. If you are so proven in GOD's hidden things that you have no need for hope because all is proven, well, then may I ask that you prove it to us by wisdom and fruit, not castigation of our clinging to scripture...

WPG12 · Post by **WPG12** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:19 am

not castigation of our clinging to scripture

I don't cling to books of other men's understanding.

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men.
John 5:39â€-â€¬41 KJV

Glad to hear what sustains you and you cling to though

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:52 pm

[Replying to post 5 by WPG12]

You do realize all the scripture referred to in the NT quotes is the Tanakh/Torah. NT didn't exist then. So, my question is, should we discard them both as they lead not to eternal life?

WPG12 · Post by **WPG12** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:19 am

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Discard scripture? No I would not suggest that at all.

I would suggest simply doing the things Jesus says, no matter how small it seems, it's really just that simple. Without letting men tell us it's not for us today, it was for the apostles back then.
It's about going back to the first principle Christ taught never leaving them, which is the foundation he laid, and men would rather move you off of. The writer of Hebrews states just hat himself.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:1 KJV

That foundation is what everything is built on, the very first principles he taught, and we should never be moved off of, but we are.

It's really just this simple, just do the things he says no matter how small, and everything else just falls into place

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him,

If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
John 14:21â€, â€¬23â€-â€¬24 KJV

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:51 am

[Replying to post 7 by WPG12]

OK, my NKJ says in 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ"

The writer is saying, we all get the basics. Show us what is beyond that. Meaning, what Christ taught beyond, "love the Lord your God, with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul." Show us what is next, we must do. Don't stagnate where you are. They are talking about following Christ further on his path, not leaving it. Or just dwelling there.

WPG12 · Post by **WPG12** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:02 am

[Replying to post 8 by brianbbs67]

That's just it, God will reveal it to you not men. Either way it's wrong

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:39 am

brianbbs67 wrote:Show us what is beyond that. Meaning, what Christ taught beyond, "love the Lord your God, with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul." Show us what is next, we must do.

Jesus also instructed his disciples to preach the kingdom and share in the work of making new disciples. He likened this to adding to the masters treasures and indicated he could condemn those that proved negligent in this disciple-making work when he returns (see Matthew 25:14-30 Â· Luke 19:12-27).

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. - JESUS CHRIST

Two Jehovah'sWitnesses preaching the Kingdom message

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Does the book of Hebrews

Does the book of Hebrews

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Re: Does the book of Hebrews