God created Christinity?

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Willum
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God created Christinity?

Post #1

Post by Willum »

There are a number of people who claim the God created Christianity to save the merest fraction of humanity... Yet I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that supports this... Does anyone have anything?

The question for the debate: What are people thinking when they claim God created Christianity? What led them to believe this?


Answer: I don't think anyone who honestly takes the subject seriously, and has studied the evidence, would claim such a thing.

It is kind of crazy... You would think that any obvious truth should spread throughout society, like a wildfire. But it seems to be, that Christianity, and the obvious facts, seem to be suppressed by the masses, and misconceptions are asserted and supported by people even though they are obviously false... One of those misconceptions is God created Christianity...

Does anyone have any evidence?

(And note, the compiling of the Bible is not creating Christianity, but that should be obvious for anyone who takes this subject seriously and has studied the evidence)

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #2

Post by showme »

Willum wrote: There are a number of people who claim the God created Christianity to save the merest fraction of humanity... Yet I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that supports this... Does anyone have anything?

The question for the debate: What are people thinking when they claim God created Christianity? What led them to believe this?


Answer: I don't think anyone who honestly takes the subject seriously, and has studied the evidence, would claim such a thing.

It is kind of crazy... You would think that any obvious truth should spread throughout society, like a wildfire. But it seems to be, that Christianity, and the obvious facts, seem to be suppressed by the masses, and misconceptions are asserted and supported by people even though they are obviously false... One of those misconceptions is God created Christianity...

Does anyone have any evidence?

(And note, the compiling of the Bible is not creating Christianity, but that should be obvious for anyone who takes this subject seriously and has studied the evidence)
Actually, God did create "Christianity". "Christianity" is the fulfillment of Zechariah 11, whereas the LORD took two staffs, Peter, referred to as "Union"/"Cords", known as the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), and Paul, known as "Favor", because of his false gospel of grace, to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" , which would be the "Christian" church. It is also referred to in Hosea 3 as the "adulteress", who was to be a fill in until the "sons of Israel" return.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #3

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 2 by showme]

Zechariah was just a man wasn't he? He isn't actually God to have said anything, how can this be considered evidence?
I mean the oldest fragments of the work date from 70 CE, so they were written afterward.

Surely you can't consider that evidence?

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #4

Post by showme »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 2 by showme]

Zechariah was just a man wasn't he? He isn't actually God to have said anything, how can this be considered evidence?
I mean the oldest fragments of the work date from 70 CE, so they were written afterward.

Surely you can't consider that evidence?
Well the evidence is in the pudding. The staff "Favor", Paul, broke "my covenant which I had made with all the peoples", which is the covenant made with Abraham, whose name means father of the peoples, which was the covenant of circumcision (Zechariah 11:10). The "second staff" "Union"/"Cord", "leaves the flock" (Acts 15:7), and did not feed, care, or tend the sheep (Zechariah 11:16), which were the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:6). Also, Peter was supposedly bound/girded by a "Cord" , and taken to a place you do not wish to go (John 21:18), such as to be crucified up side down, and tied/bound with a cord.

As for Zechariah being a man, Yeshua was a "son of man" (Matthew 24:30), and Yeshua quoted Zechariah 11:12-13 in Matthew 27:9 with respect to Judas Iscariot, the 3rd shepherd of Zechariah 11:8, who was "annihilated" in "one month"/generation as the other two shepherds, Peter/Cord and Paul/Favor.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #5

Post by Divine Insight »

Willum wrote: Does anyone have any evidence?
I think the evidence against any omnipotent omniscient God having created Christianity is overwhelming.

First off, if God created Christianity he must have first created Judaism along with all the Holy Documents that constitute that religions dogma. But even before Christianity was born,Judaism was already falling into disagreeing factions. Therefore, Judaism itself could not have been created by an omnipotent omniscient God who cannot fail at anything he sets out to do. This is necessarily true since Judaism itself had become confused and corrupt. So God could not have created that religion.

In Christianity the claim that Judaism has become corrupt is a central thesis of the proclamations of Jesus. However, putting this problem aside, we see the same thing happening to Christianity itself. Christianity becomes the Roman Catholic Church, it also becomes many opposing factions that are, in some cases, annihilated by the Catholic Church. Then we see the emergence of Protestantism that protests against the Catholic Church. And finally we see the continual divergence of the Protestant factions moving further away from each other in what they believe and preach.

I haven't even mentioned the emergence of Islam which is yet another offshoot of this religion. Islam also has its own disagreeing factions as well.

So the evidence that some omnipotent omniscient God created Christianity simply doesn't hold water. Which of the current disagreeing factions of Christianity represents this God's religion? And far more to the point, why has this religion become a house divided against itself?

The idea that some omnipotent omniscient God could have been behind any of this is, quite frankly, ludicrous. This could only have been done by an inept God who is an extreme failure when it comes to such a simple task as creating his own religion.

So it seems to me that the proof that this religion cannot be the work of any omnipotent omniscient God who cannot fail at anything he sets out to do simply cannot stand.

The only arguments that could be made at this point is to suggest that there are indeed things that this omnipotent omniscient God cannot do. But those kinds of arguments end up arguing for an inept impotent God. So I don't see where it make any sense to make them.

We also can't blame the corruption of "God's Religion" on men, because the moment we do that we are claiming that men are the ones who then created these corrupt factions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. But then this instantly defeats any argument that these religions were created by God.

So the only possible conclusion is that none of this was created by any God and that it was never anything more than a man-made creation.

So rather than asking for evidence that Christianity was created by God, why not just look at the truth of the situation that the evidence that the religion could not possibly have been created by God is already overwhelming. There is no need to ask for evidence that it was created by a God since the evidence to the contrary is so blatant.

Sometimes it's just far easier to prove that something isn't true then trying to prove that it is. :D
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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #6

Post by bluethread »

showme wrote:
Actually, God did create "Christianity". "Christianity" is the fulfillment of Zechariah 11, whereas the LORD took two staffs, Peter, referred to as "Union"/"Cords", known as the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), and Paul, known as "Favor", because of his false gospel of grace, to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" , which would be the "Christian" church. It is also referred to in Hosea 3 as the "adulteress", who was to be a fill in until the "sons of Israel" return.
That is a complete misrepresentation of the prophecy of Zechariah. The two staffs are Israel and Yehudah. It has nothing to do with what has been called "Christianity". Zechariah is saying that in the latter days the Nation of Israel, which was dispersed by the Assyrians, will again be joined to Yehudah, who were evicted by the Romans, to create a restored people.

Now, one could argue that this joining occurred when the those of the diaspora had come to Yerusalem for the feast of Shavuot and Adonai's spirit came upon them. However, I do not think what followed could be equated with what has come to be known as "Christianity". There is way too much baggage associated with Christianity, which the detractors on this sight point out, for that to be the case. I do think that over the last two millenia Israel and Yehudah have been joined, culminating in the creation of the state of Israel and the mixed multitude that are now following Yeshua. I think the development of "Christianity" has been a hinderance to that prophecy being fulfilled. If anything, Adonai allowed Christianity to be created as an unconscious rod to discipline the remnant and drive them back to His ways, at which time they would be able to be again joined together as one people.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #7

Post by showme »

bluethread wrote:
showme wrote:
Actually, God did create "Christianity". "Christianity" is the fulfillment of Zechariah 11, whereas the LORD took two staffs, Peter, referred to as "Union"/"Cords", known as the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), and Paul, known as "Favor", because of his false gospel of grace, to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" , which would be the "Christian" church. It is also referred to in Hosea 3 as the "adulteress", who was to be a fill in until the "sons of Israel" return.
That is a complete misrepresentation of the prophecy of Zechariah. The two staffs are Israel and Yehudah. It has nothing to do with what has been called "Christianity". Zechariah is saying that in the latter days the Nation of Israel, which was dispersed by the Assyrians, will again be joined to Yehudah, who were evicted by the Romans, to create a restored people.

Now, one could argue that this joining occurred when the those of the diaspora had come to Yerusalem for the feast of Shavuot and Adonai's spirit came upon them. However, I do not think what followed could be equated with what has come to be known as "Christianity". There is way too much baggage associated with Christianity, which the detractors on this sight point out, for that to be the case. I do think that over the last two millenia Israel and Yehudah have been joined, culminating in the creation of the state of Israel and the mixed multitude that are now following Yeshua. I think the development of "Christianity" has been a hinderance to that prophecy being fulfilled. If anything, Adonai allowed Christianity to be created as an unconscious rod to discipline the remnant and drive them back to His ways, at which time they would be able to be again joined together as one people.
Sorry, but Zechariah 11 includes the reference to Judas Iscariot as it is quoted in Matthew 27:9-10, and Zechariah 11:8 stipulates that all 3 shepherds, including Cords/Peter and Favor/Paul, would be annihilated in the same month/generation. As for the "house of Israel" it remains scattered among the nations (Ezekiel 36:21-24), and until after the "bones" of the "whole house of Israel" rise from the dead, the "house of Israel" and "Judah" won't be as one nation, on the lands I gave to Jacob, with "My servant David" as "king over them", when "they will walk in My ordinances" (Ezekiel 37). No, the stick of Judah and the stick of Ephraim/Israel remains apart until the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31) when Jerusalem is "captured" and the LORD goes out to fight (Zechariah 14)

The "fall" of "Christianity", which is built on other than heeding the testimony of Yeshua, such as it follows the false prophet Paul, and the worthless shepherd Peter, is just behind the door. Building a church on the foundation of Peter & Paul is like building a house on a foundation of sand (Matthew 7:24-27).

Isaiah 22:15-25 lays out the making of Shebna/Peter as the head house keeper of the house of David, who will fail, and his heir, the pope, who also will carry the key of the house of David, who when he opens, no one can close, will also "fall", "in that day", and all "hanging" onto him, will be "cut off". The office of the Pontiff is failing as the world watches.

As for when Ephraim/Israel and Judah will reunite, it will be after 2 days/2000 years when they "acknowledge their guilt and seek my face" (Hosea 5 & 6:1-2). That hasn't happened.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #8

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 4 by showme]

So being circumcised, a tradition started in Egypt, is evidence? That is a very strange case you are making. But certainly you cannot believe it constitutes proof?
Abraham means "son of Rahab[m]," demonstrating Egyptian, possibly mythical origins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahab_(Egypt)#Egypt
Also, there have probably been many lazy shepherds. Surely that counts for nothing?

Finally, surely you see that invoking Jesus as proof of Zechariah's legitimacy is irrational? The earliest edition of Zechariah is dated 30 or so years after Jesus allegedly existed.
And even if it didn't how would it constitute proof?
Last edited by Willum on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #9

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

On the contrary, since the Bible says so very few will make it to Heaven, it stands to reason that God would allow his religion to fall into disrepair so that only the worthy could follow the right path.

Obviously the will and imagination of an omnipotent being would be identical to reality, so he must have desired the fall, the flood, so that... nah I can't sustain the joke.

Obviously DI, you are correct, there is evidence against.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #10

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 6 by bluethread]

We'll let things settle between you and 'showme.' Though obviously 'showme''s evidence has two major strikes against it, from two different perspectives.

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