God created Christinity?

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God created Christinity?

Post #1

Post by Willum »

There are a number of people who claim the God created Christianity to save the merest fraction of humanity... Yet I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that supports this... Does anyone have anything?

The question for the debate: What are people thinking when they claim God created Christianity? What led them to believe this?


Answer: I don't think anyone who honestly takes the subject seriously, and has studied the evidence, would claim such a thing.

It is kind of crazy... You would think that any obvious truth should spread throughout society, like a wildfire. But it seems to be, that Christianity, and the obvious facts, seem to be suppressed by the masses, and misconceptions are asserted and supported by people even though they are obviously false... One of those misconceptions is God created Christianity...

Does anyone have any evidence?

(And note, the compiling of the Bible is not creating Christianity, but that should be obvious for anyone who takes this subject seriously and has studied the evidence)

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #11

Post by Tart »

Willum wrote: There are a number of people who claim the God created Christianity to save the merest fraction of humanity... Yet I have yet to see a single piece of evidence that supports this... Does anyone have anything?

The question for the debate: What are people thinking when they claim God created Christianity? What led them to believe this?


Answer: I don't think anyone who honestly takes the subject seriously, and has studied the evidence, would claim such a thing.

It is kind of crazy... You would think that any obvious truth should spread throughout society, like a wildfire. But it seems to be, that Christianity, and the obvious facts, seem to be suppressed by the masses, and misconceptions are asserted and supported by people even though they are obviously false... One of those misconceptions is God created Christianity...

Does anyone have any evidence?

(And note, the compiling of the Bible is not creating Christianity, but that should be obvious for anyone who takes this subject seriously and has studied the evidence)
This would be a great question to discuss, despite this topic being ripped off of another thread and not seriously asked.

But lets discuss it anyways... Was God behind Christianity?

I think everyone should agree that the Bible, the basis of Christianity evidence and beliefs, was created by men. We should agree... However where we disagree is whether those men were inspired by God to write such things...

So lets take a look at the evidence... The Bible... How can we make sense out of Christianity, its existence? If not inspired by God, then there should be at least a plausible explanation for it... This is why i ask everyone what they believe about Christianity, and why they believe it. I want to make sense of the Bible, and the evidence of Christianity... If it was created by the Roman Government, I want to know. If it was created on lies, i want to know. If it is a myth, i want to know.... How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a godless position?

If you want my opinion, God is the only reasonable explanation for Christianity, and it coming into existence.

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #12

Post by Tart »

Divine Insight wrote:
Willum wrote: Does anyone have any evidence?
I think the evidence against any omnipotent omniscient God having created Christianity is overwhelming.

First off, if God created Christianity he must have first created Judaism along with all the Holy Documents that constitute that religions dogma. But even before Christianity was born,Judaism was already falling into disagreeing factions. Therefore, Judaism itself could not have been created by an omnipotent omniscient God who cannot fail at anything he sets out to do. This is necessarily true since Judaism itself had become confused and corrupt. So God could not have created that religion.
Why couldnt have God created Judaism? Even despite it becoming "confused and corrupt", and having "disagreeing factors"?

If Christianity/Judism is true, and the God of these religion really exist, it is completely compatible with Judaism being corrupt, and disagreeing... In fact, the Bible says this is exactly what happened... It never claims that Judaism, the Jews, never disagreed. Nor does it claim Judaism will never be corrupt.

This is another example of DI imagining what he thinks God should be like, and saying because the Christian God isnt that way, it is therefor false...

Divine Insight wrote: In Christianity the claim that Judaism has become corrupt is a central thesis of the proclamations of Jesus. However, putting this problem aside, we see the same thing happening to Christianity itself. Christianity becomes the Roman Catholic Church, it also becomes many opposing factions that are, in some cases, annihilated by the Catholic Church. Then we see the emergence of Protestantism that protests against the Catholic Church. And finally we see the continual divergence of the Protestant factions moving further away from each other in what they believe and preach.
Again, how is this evidence against Christianity? Why wouldn't these things be compatible with Christianity? (note*, not your imagined idea of what you think god should be like, but what the Bible reveals God to be like).. How is the history of Christianity throughout the centuries incompatible with Christianity being true?
Divine Insight wrote: I haven't even mentioned the emergence of Islam which is yet another offshoot of this religion. Islam also has its own disagreeing factions as well.
Your right, and this is all compatible with Christianity... The Bible prophecies about Islam, as well as Judaism, and Christianity. I could share them with you if you like...

If Christianity is true, we should expect to see exactly what we see in our world today... That is, we should expect that people disagree, we should expect that false prophets and false religions are present in our world, we should expect wars, we should expect to see false Christians, and different denominations with difrent interpretations...

All of these things are consistent with the Bible, if you like ill show you verses for any of them. They support Christianity being true... The very things you say that disprove Christianity, are things that collaborate with the Truth of Christianity..

If Christianity is true, we should expect to see the world as it is today.
Divine Insight wrote: So the evidence that some omnipotent omniscient God created Christianity simply doesn't hold water. Which of the current disagreeing factions of Christianity represents this God's religion? And far more to the point, why has this religion become a house divided against itself?
Again... In the scripture, there are plenty of instances of Christians disagreeing with one another. There is also different churches throughout the world talked about in the scripture, all with different issues.. This is consistent with Christianity...

The only thing this isnt consistent with is DI's imagination of what he thinks god should be like... But that has nothing to do with Christianity....
Divine Insight wrote: The idea that some omnipotent omniscient God could have been behind any of this is, quite frankly, ludicrous. This could only have been done by an inept God who is an extreme failure when it comes to such a simple task as creating his own religion.

So it seems to me that the proof that this religion cannot be the work of any omnipotent omniscient God who cannot fail at anything he sets out to do simply cannot stand.

The only arguments that could be made at this point is to suggest that there are indeed things that this omnipotent omniscient God cannot do. But those kinds of arguments end up arguing for an inept impotent God. So I don't see where it make any sense to make them.
And why couldnt an all powerful, all knowing God allow it for it to be this way? Because that is what Christianity believes... The scripture support our reality today, and all the things you argue that are evdeince agianst the Christian God, everything, is consistent with Christianity itself.. It just isnt consistent with DI's imagination...
Divine Insight wrote: We also can't blame the corruption of "God's Religion" on men, because the moment we do that we are claiming that men are the ones who then created these corrupt factions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. But then this instantly defeats any argument that these religions were created by God.
Actually, there are many instances in the Bible where Christians, and people claiming to be Christians, are corrupted. And even entire churches being corrupted...

That is consistent with Christianity.
Divine Insight wrote: So the only possible conclusion is that none of this was created by any God and that it was never anything more than a man-made creation.
No, what we can conclude from this post is that DI's god, the god of his imagination, cant exist..

And I think we should all agree with that... However, that isnt the God of Christianity.
Divine Insight wrote: So rather than asking for evidence that Christianity was created by God, why not just look at the truth of the situation that the evidence that the religion could not possibly have been created by God is already overwhelming. There is no need to ask for evidence that it was created by a God since the evidence to the contrary is so blatant.

Sometimes it's just far easier to prove that something isn't true then trying to prove that it is. :D
This entire post is basically building up a straw-man, an image of DI's god in place who the Christian God, and then refuting your idea of that god, and not the Christian God...

Everything you claimed that is evidence against the God of the Bible, is actually talked about in the Bible... It all supports Christianity being true, and id be happy to take any subject you talked about, as being evidence against Christianity, and discuss what the Bible actually says about it (and not DI's imagined god).

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #13

Post by Divine Insight »

Tart wrote: So lets take a look at the evidence... The Bible... How can we make sense out of Christianity, its existence? If not inspired by God, then there should be at least a plausible explanation for it... This is why i ask everyone what they believe about Christianity, and why they believe it. I want to make sense of the Bible, and the evidence of Christianity... If it was created by the Roman Government, I want to know. If it was created on lies, i want to know. If it is a myth, i want to know.... How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a godless position?

If you want my opinion, God is the only reasonable explanation for Christianity, and it coming into existence.
I don't see how you can take this position seriously.

The explanation that Christianity arose from superstition, rumors, and myths is a perfectly fine explanation. In fact, it explains everything with nothing left unexplained. How can you argue against that?

It would seem to me that the only argument you could give is that the Gospels could not be true "as they are written" if the whole thing is based on superstition, rumors, and myths.

I would agree 100%

But then again, there is absolutely no reason to think that the Gospels are true "as they are written".

In other words, it seems to me that you are starting from the theological perspective that the Gospels must be explained "as they are written", as though every word of them is true and therefore must be explained.

But that actually puts the cart before the horse. This already assumes that every word of the Gospels must be true, and therefore must be explained. But this already places the conclusion before the inquiry. The conclusion being that the Gospels must be true.

Instead, once you realize that the Gospels are not a true account of what actually happened and instead they are just superstition, rumors, and myths, then there is no longer any need to explain away every claim they make.

Therefore your conclusion that the only explanation for the Gospels is "God", is mistaken. Of course that would necessarily be true if you have no choice but to accept the Gospels as the "Gospel Truth". In fact, the Gospels say that God himself spoke from the clouds proclaiming Jesus to be his Son. How in the world are you going to explain that if you are already demanding that everything in the Gospels must be accepted as truth?

What you don't seem to realize is that once you have recognized that the Gospels are indeed based on superstition, rumors, and myths then there is no longer any need to explain any claims they make.

Therefore the explanation that they are nothing more than superstition, rumors, and myths explains everything with nothing left unexplained.

~~~~~

On the other hand, if you're going to try to hold up the Gospels as being the "Gospel Truth" that must be explained as it is written. Then of course the conclusion that some supernatural God was involved is a necessarily conclusion.

However, there is a huge problem with this approach. Now you need to explain everything the Gospels have to say and that requires having a God who does insanely absurd things. So this leads to a lifetime of making up endless apologies for why a God would have ever done such an utterly absurd thing.

And this is where Christian apologists are today. They are wasting their entire lives away trying to make up apologies for why this God is so insane and inept, yet at the same time needs to be the most efficient perfect omnipotent omniscient entity we can possibly imagine. And that approach clearly does not work.

It clearly doesn't work because even the most dedicated Christian apologists can't even convince each other of a single consistent apology for this religion that makes any sense. They have all rejected each other's apologies to go off and create their own personal factions and demoninations of this religion.

It should be obvious to everyone, including these dedicated apologists that there simply is no single sane and coherent explanation for the Gospels stories. For if there were it should certainly have emerged by now as the single foundation for all Christian apologists. The fact that even Christian apologists could never come up with a single coherent and consistent explanation for the Gospels speaks volumes.

In fact, you claim that "God is the only explanation", but it's not an explanation at all. No two believers in this God can even agree on what the explanations are.

So assuming that the God exists is not explanation at all. In fact, making that assumption only creates endless unanswered questions and problems.

The conclusion that the entire thing is nothing more than superstition, rumors, and myths answers everything, leaving nothing unanswered.

There is no longer any need to "explain" everything the Gospels have to say because superstition, rumors, and myths need no further explanation. In other words, we no longer need to explain how or why a God spoke from the clouds proclaiming Jesus to be his son. Instead we simply realize that this never happened in the first place. Therefore there is no need to explain it. Someone made it up and it caught on as a rumor. Explanation complete.

And the same thing holds for everything that is claimed in the Gospels rumors. Some stuff may have been sparked by actual mundane secular events, and other parts are exaggerated superstitious rumors. Explanation complete.

How can you say that this doesn't explain things fully?

The explanation that the Gospels are superstition, rumors, and myths is a totally valid and working explanation that needs nothing further added. It's a complete explanation. Period.

You ask:
"How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a godless position?"
It's a collection of superstitious rumors that grew over time to become a religion.

Explanation complete.

Who actually started these rumors or what their motivation might have been is irrelevant to this explanation.

Also consider the following question"
"How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a position that there is a God behind it?"
Thus far no one has been able to do this in a compelling convincing way. Even theologians, apologists, clergy, and entire Christian Churches, cannot agree with each other on their troubled theological apologies.

So it's not like this has ever been done.

If it could be done in a compelling way that actually made sense that would indeed be impressive. But thus far no one has been able to do this.

So the explanation that it's all just superstitious rumors is the most compelling explanation yet. This explanation explains everything with nothing left unexplained. To say that it doesn't is simply not true.
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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #14

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 12 by Tart]

...Judaism... aside from Judaism being off topic:
So, your evidence is 'human nature,' huh? I see a lot of words, but all I get out of it is: Proof that God created Christianity is human nature. The problem with that is, in any reality, God or no, you'd have human nature.
That is worse than providing circumcision as evidence...

So... no evidence, huh?

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #15

Post by Divine Insight »

Tart wrote: This is another example of DI imagining what he thinks God should be like, and saying because the Christian God isnt that way, it is therefor false...
Nope, this has nothing to do with DI's imagination.

The Biblical God is supposed to be perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and incapable of failing at anything he sets out to do. This isn't my criteria, this is the criteria of Christendom.

Your only option is to proclaim that the Biblical God is not perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and is prone to extreme failure in just about everything he does.

That's the only kind of God that could be behind Christianity.

So this has nothing to do with my imagination. If you want to claim that the Biblical God is inept and can never succeed at anything he sets out to do, that's fine with me, but at that point I see no reason to believe in your inept God.

That's a pretty sad apology as a defense for a failed theology don't you think?
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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #16

Post by Divine Insight »

Tart wrote: Everything you claimed that is evidence against the God of the Bible, is actually talked about in the Bible... It all supports Christianity being true, and id be happy to take any subject you talked about, as being evidence against Christianity, and discuss what the Bible actually says about it (and not DI's imagined god).
John 11:35 says it all,...

"Jesus wept."

Poor Jesus. An omnipotent omniscient God who is now crying because things aren't going the way he had planned?

How can you not see the contradiction in these stories?

If Jesus truly was an omnipotent omniscient God who had planned everything out from alpha to omega he should have been rejoicing that everything was going precisely as he had planned.

But instead these stories have this supposedly omnipotent omniscient God crying because things aren't going as he had hoped. :roll:

These stories simply aren't compatible with a concept of a creator God who is omnipotent omniscient and had planned everything out from the very beginning.

In fact, having to arrange to have humans brutally crucify himself would have also need to be part of his ingenuous omnipotent omniscient planning.

How can you not see that these stories are not compatible with an omnipotent convenient God who plans everything out in advance?

Trying to blame the failures of this mythological theology onto my imagination is simply absurd.

There are no excuses for this utter nonsense.

Jesus is crying because things aren't working out the way he wanted. :roll:

How can you not see the extreme contradiction in this?

Humans identify with these stories because humans are impotent and incapable of doing much of anything. Everything is out of their control. So they can identify with crying when things don't go the way they had hoped. But does this really make sense for an omnipotent omniscient God who had supposedly planned out everything from the very beginning to the very end of time?

Clearly not.

And you're going to try to sweep this under the carpet as nothing more than DI's imagination of what an omnipotent omniscient God should be like?

Get real.
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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #17

Post by Tart »

Divine Insight wrote:
Tart wrote: So lets take a look at the evidence... The Bible... How can we make sense out of Christianity, its existence? If not inspired by God, then there should be at least a plausible explanation for it... This is why i ask everyone what they believe about Christianity, and why they believe it. I want to make sense of the Bible, and the evidence of Christianity... If it was created by the Roman Government, I want to know. If it was created on lies, i want to know. If it is a myth, i want to know.... How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a godless position?

If you want my opinion, God is the only reasonable explanation for Christianity, and it coming into existence.
I don't see how you can take this position seriously.

The explanation that Christianity arose from superstition, rumors, and myths is a perfectly fine explanation. In fact, it explains everything with nothing left unexplained. How can you argue against that?

It would seem to me that the only argument you could give is that the Gospels could not be true "as they are written" if the whole thing is based on superstition, rumors, and myths.

I would agree 100%
You say the explanation that Christianity arose from superstition, rumors, and myths is a perfectly fine explanation... What evidence do you have? That isnt the Christian claim in the slightest.

What Christianity claims is the Jesus really existed, that the eyewitnesses and early disciples wrote the Gospels, Book of Acts, and the Epistles. We have quotes of authors specifically saying, flat out, these are not myths and they iwtnessed the miraculous events. We have quotes saying flat out, that Jesus really rose from the dead, at the power of God, and that he literally appeared to many of them confirming it. We have explanations given why the Resurrection took place (not just the fact that it did take place). We have the reasoning why God did all of this, not just the fact that He did it. We have the explanation for the motives of why these book were written, and we have demonstrations from the Disciples that their beliefs are genuine and authentic. (if you question any of this, id be happy to go into detail anything you are questioning)

What we dont have any evidence of is that the Gospels, the Book of Acts, or the Epistles were based on myths, or only rumors of wild tails, or superstition... We actually have evidence that specifically objects, directly, to these exact claims. The First disciples objected to everything that you are saying that you claim is a reasonable explanation for Christianity. (if you question any of this, id be happy to go into detail)...

So you are not making sense of the evidence in the slightest. What you are claiming flies in the face of the evidence, and it certainly sint giving a reasonable explanation for why anyone wrote anything in the Bible. It isnt explaining the motive of the disciples, it doesnt share the same beliefs of the reasoning the disciples gave...

You have a lot to explain to get to that conclusion.
Divine Insight wrote: But then again, there is absolutely no reason to think that the Gospels are true "as they are written".

In other words, it seems to me that you are starting from the theological perspective that the Gospels must be explained "as they are written", as though every word of them is true and therefore must be explained.
No, even if it isnt true, it should be explained.. We can explain Harry Potter is a fiction story by J. K. Rowling... We can explain Zeus, and Hercules, is apart of Greek Mythology. We can explain that atheists are behind the lie, and mockery, of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I am simply trying to get a valid explanation for Christianity... Any reasonable explanation would be fine, whether it says Christianity is true or not... It seems to me, that the only reasonable explanation is the one given by the First Disciples and the Prophets...

But if you have another reasonable explanation, feel free to share it, and the evidence and reasoning behind that explanation.
Divine Insight wrote: But that actually puts the cart before the horse. This already assumes that every word of the Gospels must be true, and therefore must be explained. But this already places the conclusion before the inquiry. The conclusion being that the Gospels must be true.
Nope... If the Gospels arent true, they should have a valid explanation... It seems to me that the best explanation is the one given..
Divine Insight wrote: Instead, once you realize that the Gospels are not a true account of what actually happened and instead they are just superstition, rumors, and myths, then there is no longer any need to explain away every claim they make.
We can clearly see objections in the scriptures to these exact things.. That is, "superstition, rumors, and myths"

Example... "16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories [here Peter uses the Greek word "mythos", which is where the word "myths" come from.. Peter is objecting to this exact claim] when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." (2 Peter 1)

That is 1 example of many, from multiple sources, of the Disciples objecting to your exact claim..

You certainly havent made sense of the evidence in any way shape or form. You are assuming things that arent true.
Divine Insight wrote: Therefore your conclusion that the only explanation for the Gospels is "God", is mistaken. Of course that would necessarily be true if you have no choice but to accept the Gospels as the "Gospel Truth". In fact, the Gospels say that God himself spoke from the clouds proclaiming Jesus to be his Son. How in the world are you going to explain that if you are already demanding that everything in the Gospels must be accepted as truth?
The same way id explain Jesus's resurrection, the power of God. The same way id explain the prophecies, the knowledge of God. The same way id explain impact of Christianity, a force of God. The same way id explain the existance of Christianity, coming as a result of God.


Clearly your "superstition, rumors, and myths" explanation is not a valid explanation at all.. You have to conclude something more, like the Disciples lied, or something like that... Is that what you think happened? And do you have any evdience for soemthing like that?

(I have to go to class, i might look over the rest of your reply later)

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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #18

Post by Tart »

Divine Insight wrote:
What you don't seem to realize is that once you have recognized that the Gospels are indeed based on superstition, rumors, and myths then there is no longer any need to explain any claims they make.

Therefore the explanation that they are nothing more than superstition, rumors, and myths explains everything with nothing left unexplained.

~~~~~

On the other hand, if you're going to try to hold up the Gospels as being the "Gospel Truth" that must be explained as it is written. Then of course the conclusion that some supernatural God was involved is a necessarily conclusion.

However, there is a huge problem with this approach. Now you need to explain everything the Gospels have to say and that requires having a God who does insanely absurd things. So this leads to a lifetime of making up endless apologies for why a God would have ever done such an utterly absurd thing.

And this is where Christian apologists are today. They are wasting their entire lives away trying to make up apologies for why this God is so insane and inept, yet at the same time needs to be the most efficient perfect omnipotent omniscient entity we can possibly imagine. And that approach clearly does not work.

It clearly doesn't work because even the most dedicated Christian apologists can't even convince each other of a single consistent apology for this religion that makes any sense. They have all rejected each other's apologies to go off and create their own personal factions and demoninations of this religion.

It should be obvious to everyone, including these dedicated apologists that there simply is no single sane and coherent explanation for the Gospels stories. For if there were it should certainly have emerged by now as the single foundation for all Christian apologists. The fact that even Christian apologists could never come up with a single coherent and consistent explanation for the Gospels speaks volumes.

In fact, you claim that "God is the only explanation", but it's not an explanation at all. No two believers in this God can even agree on what the explanations are.

So assuming that the God exists is not explanation at all. In fact, making that assumption only creates endless unanswered questions and problems.
Actually, Christianity is consistent with believers having different opinions and interpretations. It is consistent with believers taking different actions, and holding different beliefs. There is examples of this exact kind of behavior within the scriptures.

Im actually under the assumption that we all are limited in our understanding of God. Everyone of us... And us Christians are trying to make sense out of it, but we may have different beliefs, and live under different denominations... For example, when i first started studying with a church (and not just on my own), it was with the Jehovah Witnesses... I studied with them for a few years, but opted not to join their church because they were so controversial and isolated... I later studied with the Methodist for some years, doing mission trips and things, but they were really water down Christianity, and I left them after I started studying with the Church of Christ. There in the Church of Christ, i attended for 3 to 4 years, but opted to leave do to personal reasons. Now im looking at Catholicism, or other places... However, i believe you can be a Christian in any of these denominations, even though some of them may have different beliefs. I personally believe all of these branches of Christianity may have true Christian believers, and I also believe in every one of the branches there may be false believers... The fact that becuase there are different branches of Christianity, doesn't negate its validity. To be a Christian is to have a personal relationship with God... And all of us might have beliefs that very (perhaps even in the very slightest of variations, or bigger variations).. However, God knows we all have limited knowledge of Him, and is willing to continue to walk with us, forgive us, and continue to show us truth..


Divine Insight wrote: The conclusion that the entire thing is nothing more than superstition, rumors, and myths answers everything, leaving nothing unanswered.

There is no longer any need to "explain" everything the Gospels have to say because superstition, rumors, and myths need no further explanation. In other words, we no longer need to explain how or why a God spoke from the clouds proclaiming Jesus to be his son. Instead we simply realize that this never happened in the first place. Therefore there is no need to explain it. Someone made it up and it caught on as a rumor. Explanation complete.
Actually, that isnt a good explanation... What it seems like you are saying is a is an explanation, assumed, on limited knowledge... It is clear that the authors of the Bible objected to these exact claims... So ya, that would need a further explanation... Like perhaps you believe they are lying or something? But saying its myths isnt valid on its own. (if youd like verses that back up what im saying, id be happy to share them with you...)
Divine Insight wrote: And the same thing holds for everything that is claimed in the Gospels rumors. Some stuff may have been sparked by actual mundane secular events, and other parts are exaggerated superstitious rumors. Explanation complete.
DI you havent read the Bible... Have you?
Divine Insight wrote: How can you say that this doesn't explain things fully?

The explanation that the Gospels are superstition, rumors, and myths is a totally valid and working explanation that needs nothing further added. It's a complete explanation. Period.
No its not. Would you like to dive into the evidence, and the words of the Disciples to discuss this further?
Divine Insight wrote: You ask:
"How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a godless position?"
It's a collection of superstitious rumors that grew over time to become a religion.

Explanation complete.

Who actually started these rumors or what their motivation might have been is irrelevant to this explanation.
Actually, you are commenting on motivations when you claim it is superstition, rumors, or myths... Which isnt a valid explanation. Would you like scripture of the reasons why?
Divine Insight wrote: Also consider the following question"
"How does anyone make sense of Christianity from a position that there is a God behind it?"
Thus far no one has been able to do this in a compelling convincing way. Even theologians, apologists, clergy, and entire Christian Churches, cannot agree with each other on their troubled theological apologies.

So it's not like this has ever been done.

If it could be done in a compelling way that actually made sense that would indeed be impressive. But thus far no one has been able to do this.

So the explanation that it's all just superstitious rumors is the most compelling explanation yet. This explanation explains everything with nothing left unexplained. To say that it doesn't is simply not true.

So, when the Disciples say, with their own words that these things arent myths. That they witnessed them with their own eyes and ears. That they talked with, walked with, and knew Jesus first hand.. And that he did many miraculous signs, showing divinity (which they themselves witnessed).. That they say the prophecies were fulfilled by what they witnessed. And that they experienced the rise Jesus...

But you say these things are based on myths, rumors, and superstition...

How does that make sense?

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Divine Insight
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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #19

Post by Divine Insight »

Tart wrote: Clearly your "superstition, rumors, and myths" explanation is not a valid explanation at all.. You have to conclude something more, like the Disciples lied, or something like that... Is that what you think happened? And do you have any evdience for soemthing like that?

Humans are known to tell lies. So why should you think that it's impossible that the authors of these ancient stories couldn't tell lies? :-k

And why would I need evidence that people lied? We know that people lie all the time. Nothing surprising there.

If you want to claim that the Gospels represent some sort of truth, then it's up to you to provide evidence for that.

And I already showed you where that leads. It leads to a lifetime of making up endless feeble apologies for why you think the Gospels could have been telling some sort of true. Apologies that you can't even convince fellow Christians of.

So that approach certainly isn't going anywhere constructive.
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Re: God created Christinity?

Post #20

Post by ttruscott »

Willum wrote:Does anyone have any evidence?
iF evidence is NOT confused with proof, ie, rejected because it does not prove anything, then the evidence I can share is
1. the Bible, esp the life of Christ
2. the witness of billions of people
3. the indwelling witness of the holy Spirit
4. the fact of my own faith in the face of my earlier hatred of YHWH

I also reject that the many arguments that the acceptance of this evidence is foolish as unreliable since that is a personal assumption I do not share.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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