Jesus is said to have been descended from the David kings.
The Davids were no longer on the throne in Jesus' time.
In what looks to me to be political propaganda from a faction that took over from the Davids, Jesus' ancestry is shown, in early biblical writings, to be illegitimate.
The Bastard Kings of Israel
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Divine Insight
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Post #2
I'll have to concede to your conclusions since I have no evidence to present against your argument.
Thanks for the debate.
Short as it was.
Thanks for the debate.
Short as it was.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
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StuartJ
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Post #3
We seem to have reached a roadblock here ....
For me, the claim that the biblical writings are "The Word of God" is false (we can have another thread on that issue).
For me, the biblical writings look to be full of political propaganda, and downright defamation of opposition parties.
The story of Judah and Tamar looks to me to be political slander that makes Jesus' ancestors illegitimate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_(Genesis)
For me, the claim that the biblical writings are "The Word of God" is false (we can have another thread on that issue).
For me, the biblical writings look to be full of political propaganda, and downright defamation of opposition parties.
The story of Judah and Tamar looks to me to be political slander that makes Jesus' ancestors illegitimate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_(Genesis)
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.
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brianbbs67
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Post #4
How could christ be of the house of David, unless Mary or Joseph(step dad at best) or the Lord are? Joseph is claimed to be. But, he did not know his wife before she conceived. So Christ is not his blood relative.
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StuartJ
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Post #5
[Replying to post 4 by brianbbs67]
Unless the David kings were believed to be god-kings.
A common theme in ancient times was to have your king supposedly sired by the local god.
The local king often represented the local god. He therefore WAS the local god. Consider the meaning of the name Eli-Jah.
The local god in Jesus' time and place was Yahweh/Jehovah. Or Jah - as in Hellelu Jah - or just plain John. John the Baptist took the name of the local pagan god.
Other times and other places have produced other Sons of God, or Sons of Heaven.
Unless the David kings were believed to be god-kings.
A common theme in ancient times was to have your king supposedly sired by the local god.
The local king often represented the local god. He therefore WAS the local god. Consider the meaning of the name Eli-Jah.
The local god in Jesus' time and place was Yahweh/Jehovah. Or Jah - as in Hellelu Jah - or just plain John. John the Baptist took the name of the local pagan god.
Other times and other places have produced other Sons of God, or Sons of Heaven.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.
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brianbbs67
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Post #6
David nor his descendants were not consider God by Isreal.StuartJ wrote: [Replying to post 4 by brianbbs67]
Unless the David kings were believed to be god-kings.
A common theme in ancient times was to have your king supposedly sired by the local god.
The local king often represented the local god. He therefore WAS the local god. Consider the meaning of the name Eli-Jah.
The local god in Jesus' time and place was Yahweh/Jehovah. Or Jah - as in Hellelu Jah - or just plain John. John the Baptist took the name of the local pagan god.
Other times and other places have produced other Sons of God, or Sons of Heaven.
Elijah in Hebrew means My God is YHWH. Eliyahu is the root.
Being a son of God or Sons of heaven can be used to denote someones place or honor them, but they weren't considered actually gods by Isreal. Other cultures, sure. YHWH repeats over and over, that there are no gods but Him. The rest or clay and stone.
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StuartJ
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Post #7
Very Little is known of the probably historical David kings outside the biblical propaganda.
The biblical propaganda, in the Tamar Turns a Trick story, portrays them as illegitimate.
It's plausible, in my view, that this piece of slander was written by a faction that ousted the Davids.
Jesus is believed to be a son of a god and a human sacrifice.
Two reasons the Davids may have been ousted.
The biblical propaganda, in the Tamar Turns a Trick story, portrays them as illegitimate.
It's plausible, in my view, that this piece of slander was written by a faction that ousted the Davids.
Jesus is believed to be a son of a god and a human sacrifice.
Two reasons the Davids may have been ousted.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.
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brianbbs67
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Post #8
StuartJ wrote: Very Little is known of the probably historical David kings outside the biblical propaganda.
The biblical propaganda, in the Tamar Turns a Trick story, portrays them as illegitimate.
It's plausible, in my view, that this piece of slander was written by a faction that ousted the Davids.
Jesus is believed to be a son of a god and a human sacrifice.
Two reasons the Davids may have been ousted.
If you mean that Tamar, Davids daughter, carried the line, then yes she did.
Remember though, Samson's story of birth and Christ are near Identical. With an Angel/messenger coming months before.
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StuartJ
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Post #9
[Replying to post 8 by brianbbs67]
This Tamar turned the trick:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_(Genesis)
Check Leviticus 18:15
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... rsion=NIRV
Tamar gave birth to two bastard boys.
The second-born was David's ancestor, Perez.
The David line is doubly illegitimate.
I suggest this is political propaganda ... and nothing to do with anyone's version of "God".
This Tamar turned the trick:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_(Genesis)
Check Leviticus 18:15
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... rsion=NIRV
Tamar gave birth to two bastard boys.
The second-born was David's ancestor, Perez.
The David line is doubly illegitimate.
I suggest this is political propaganda ... and nothing to do with anyone's version of "God".
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.
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brianbbs67
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Post #10
[Replying to post 9 by StuartJ]
ok, if you mean her twins were illegitimate , because she was Not married to the father , then in that sense , yes. However they were legitamate people. Like it or not they carried the line. God doesn't seem to have the hangups with this we do.
ok, if you mean her twins were illegitimate , because she was Not married to the father , then in that sense , yes. However they were legitamate people. Like it or not they carried the line. God doesn't seem to have the hangups with this we do.
