What type of design is this?

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:38 pm

Presuming God is real and presuming demons and Satan is real...

Presuming God created them as angels and then the ones that rebelled became the demons, let by Satan himself. These fallen angels became so corrupt that they became completely evil, with no redeeming features at all.

So God created these beings and for whatever reason they became pure evil. Yet God, even if he didn't know for sure, had a good idea they would become that way. Yet he created them anyway, knowing they would be come corrupted and turn against him.

Or maybe he had no idea at all? Maybe their corruption was a complete surprise to him?

The thing is for them to become corrupt, they must have been designed in such a way that would allow them to become corrupt.

So....
What sort of design would this be?

Malevolent?
Incompetent?
Intelligent?

Please justify your answer.

1213 · Post by **1213** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:15 pm

brunumb wrote: Please explain what you mean by "enough reason to choose to believe". I gave you a specific reason.

Sorry, I think you didnâ€™t give any reason.

For example, I choose to believe the Bible, because it has shown great wisdom and knowledge that I think humans would not have had without God.

brunumb wrote:By choosing to genuinely believe that there are small green intelligent beings living on Mars you will demonstrate that it is indeed possible to choose to believe.

I donâ€™t choose to believe without good reason. To prove you that I can do it, is not good reason to believe something that I think is not reasonable.

1213 · Post by **1213** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:15 pm

Bust Nak wrote: â€¦ believe there are enough reasons to choose to believe there are small green intelligent beings living on Mars. What's the problem?

Please explain. what are the good reasons?

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:51 pm

1213 wrote:
â€¦ believe there are enough reasons to choose to believe there are small green intelligent beings living on Mars. What's the problem?
Please explain. what are the good reasons?

Why are you asking me, I have no idea. You said you could choose to believe, I would like a demonstration.

In your response to brunumb, you said that to prove us that you can do choose to believe stuff, is not good reason to believe something that you think is not reasonable. Well, choose to believe that it is reasonable. Simple, right?

Right?

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:01 pm

[Replying to post 110 by 1213]

For example, I choose to believe the Bible, because it has shown great wisdom and knowledge that I think humans would not have had without God.

I would argue that you didn't simply make a choice to believe. Somehow your brain was convinced that the Bible was valid causing you to believe. Regardless of what wisdom is contained in the Bible, and countless other books for that matter, my brain is not convinced that there is any god. Actually, the contents of the Bible have convinced me that the Christian God most definitely does not exist. I am unable to simply choose to believe otherwise. I am also convinced by all that I have seen and heard, that religious belief is not a result of any reasoned choice but by indoctrination of vulnerable minds.

1213 · Post by **1213** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:57 am

Bust Nak wrote: In your response to brunumb, you said that to prove us that you can do choose to believe stuff, is not good reason to believe something that you think is not reasonable. Well, choose to believe that it is reasonable. Simple, right?

I donâ€™t choose to believe things that I donâ€™t want to believe.

1213 · Post by **1213** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:57 am

brunumb wrote: â€¦ I am also convinced by all that I have seen and heard, that religious belief is not a result of any reasoned choice but by indoctrination of vulnerable minds.

And I am convinced that you are wrong with that and I donâ€™t choose to believe what you have chosen to believe.

Bust Nak · Post by **Bust Nak** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:09 pm

1213 wrote: I donâ€™t choose to believe things that I donâ€™t want to believe.

Then simply choose to believe that you want to believe there are little green men on Mars, you said can choose to believe, didn't you?

Or are there things that you can't choose to believe?

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:43 pm

[Replying to post 114 by 1213]

I donâ€™t choose to believe things that I donâ€™t want to believe.

In reality, you can't choose to believe something even if you wanted to. Your brain has to be convinced before you accept any belief. Your reluctance to simply choose to believe something you don't currently believe suggests to me that you already know that. When did you choose to believe in Jesus?

Clownboat · Post by **Clownboat** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:51 pm

1213 wrote:
Bust Nak wrote: In your response to brunumb, you said that to prove us that you can do choose to believe stuff, is not good reason to believe something that you think is not reasonable. Well, choose to believe that it is reasonable. Simple, right?
I donâ€™t choose to believe things that I donâ€™t want to believe.

So you do choose things to believe in that you do want to believe in?
I seems to take place all over the planet.
Therefore... we have the gods.

Do you believe that your god is the best god because you want to believe he is the best god, or is your god truly the best one out of them all?

I assume he is the best because you want him to be the best and therefore choose to believe he is the best.

How convenient! I want in.
I believe that I am a legend in my own shower... because I want to believe it.

Truth be damned huh?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:43 pm

brunumb wrote: [Replying to post 114 by 1213]

I donâ€™t choose to believe things that I donâ€™t want to believe.
In reality, you can't choose to believe something even if you wanted to. Your brain has to be convinced before you accept any belief. Your reluctance to simply choose to believe something you don't currently believe suggests to me that you already know that. When did you choose to believe in Jesus?

What if you are faced with the red pill, blue pill choice with no proof, just a tale of a great awakening on one side and ordinary unaware happiness on the other...IF there is no reason to believe in either but you must choose....well, you choose the most attractive to you, right?

And let's not argue the analogy but the Christian claim we were given such a choice with no proof but a lot of influencing but ignorable warnings and promises, ok?