Why does God not correct wrong believers?

[marco]

We are told God is the best of fathers, never offering a stone instead of bread to a hungry son. If a father sees his child has a serious misunderstanding that might even lead him to do wrong, surely the father corrects the son?


Why then in our modern world do we have various groups adoring their God but saying contradictory things. If some are wrong why does God not issue a correction? Why do we have devout Muslims in their millions prostrating themselves towards Mecca, while Catholics look towards Rome and others to the clouds?


What can we conclude from God's seeming silence? Does he want division?

[marco]

Everyone knows that God will punish evil doers. I hear all the time about how harsh He is in the Old Testament. How mean and cruel He was to have kill the world in the flood.

Yes, I hear these things too and God does seem a tad over the top with his justice system. When I wondered why God doesn't correct wrong beliefs I didn't mean why doesn't he chop the hands off faulty believers or unbelievers. I was suggesting it might be easy to issue a clarification on some topics we discuss here.

I am not sure if someone who is not a Christian can understand the anguish that a Christian feels when he sins.

They say the devil has all the best tunes so I would imagine that there's also a tremendous amount of joy associated with what might be termed sin. As a pious boy I felt some remorse at sinning, mainly because I didn't like the idea of spending eternity in hell.

So God does discipline believers and unbelievers. Believers here on earth with remorse over sin and unbelievers in the at the "Great White throne" judgment.

Does the colour matter? It all sounds rather artificial, modelled on our earthly court systems. Anyway it was clarification I was after not chastisement.

[ttruscott]

Ummm, all the earthly saints, (apart from the holy angels who chose to never sin) were indeed evil with an evil as bad as the Satanic demons...

BUT THEY WERE CORRECTED by the grace of GOD through faith as HIS gift to them: Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- how can they go from sinner to saint without correction???

It doesn't exist because you can't see it? Riiiight....

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 28 by ttruscott]

You have given YOUR explanation of what you think is meant by various items in the Bible, Ted. The question asked is why does God not correct those who, unlike you, get it wrong?

You listed some Biblical trivia which in your opinion was unclear - I just cleared it up for you...in my opinion.

[marco]

Ummm, all the earthly saints, (apart from the holy angels who chose to never sin) were indeed evil with an evil as bad as the Satanic demons...

Words themselves are demonic, changing peaceful souls into murderers. What on earth can be the meaning of "with an evil as bad as the Satanic demons"? Did they use special chemicals; use hyper-bad language; murder in a secretly nasty way? We tell ourselves some strange stories. To what end, I wonder.

In the meantime the hills are silent of all divnities, good or bad. They exist in the exhalations of those who speak about them.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 41 by marco]

They say the devil has all the best tunes so I would imagine that there's also a tremendous amount of joy associated with what might be termed sin. As a pious boy I felt some remorse at sinning, mainly because I didn't like the idea of spending eternity in hell.

All of us that grew up in the church felt like that at one point. That is because as a young person growing up the law is a school master as Paul would say. And for many young people in the "Church" that is what it stays. But if the law stays a school master then the love of Christ is not in them.

The reason why a believer follows the law not because that they will spend eternity in hell. In fact that is not even an option for them any longer for that to occur. The reason why believers follow the law of Christ is because they know it pleases Christ. Just like a man will do many things for the wife he loves even though he may not actually like to do them if it were not for her. I know of men who have changed many things about their lives simply because of their love for their wife. And crushing disappointment comes when she is disappointed.

Teachers do the same thing in the classroom. Their goal is to build a relationship with students then obedience is not built on a punitive encounter with a student but on the desire to please the teacher because of the relationship they have. Many troubled students it is this relationship not the fear of punishment that makes them behave in one class and not another class.

It is the motivation of obedience that separates those that are believers from those that are not believers.



Does the colour matter? It all sounds rather artificial, modelled on our earthly court systems.

If motivation for obedience is on fear then it would be a court system. If obedience is based on a love for Christ and a desire to please the person of your affection. Then it is far from a legal model.

In fact the only way that one person can show love to another person is to do what they no they like. If you do things that you know another person does not like you are showing them hate not like.

The exception to that if they are doing something destructive to themselves. Then the opposite would be true.

Anyway it was clarification I was after not chastisement.

I am sorry if it came off as chastisement. Never intended for that to be the case. I was simply trying to contrast the discipline between a Christian and non- Christian.

[marco]

I am sorry if it came off as chastisement. Never intended for that to be the case. I was simply trying to contrast the discipline between a Christian and non- Christian.

Ah - what I meant was I was hoping that when God intervened with human deeds it would be to give clarification and not to give punishment. So I wasn't talking about anything you said, EarthScienceguy. Blame my careless expression.

Go well.

[ttruscott]

Ah - what I meant was I was hoping that when God intervened with human deeds it would be to give clarification and not to give punishment. So I wasn't talking about anything you said, EarthScienceguy. Blame my careless expression.

Go well.

IF some have forever put themselves outside of all reason then there is no succor in clarification. The statement assumes all people are equal which is not the Christian position. The sinful elect can be reasoned with, Satan cannot.

IF we were created as eternally self and other aware spirits and
IF we were all created with a free will and
IF there is an unforgivable sin, a sin that puts the person outside of all grace and
IF some of HIS creation chose to sin the unforgivable sin and
IF it is true that a little leaven / sin leavens / corrupts the whole lump / person / community, then
IF the only way to protect HIS Church and heavenly Family from these eternally evil people was to banish them from HIS heavenly reality,
THEN hell is an absolute necessity to keep the eternally evil ones from corrupting HIS heaven.

[marco]

THEN hell is an absolute necessity to keep the eternally evil ones from corrupting HIS heaven.

I don't know what eternally evil could mean. I think hell and post mortem punishment are myths. Nobody has knocked on my door to tell me about this giant rumpus that occurred prior to creation. It sounds like the myth of the Titans. But I suppose mythologies have much in common.

But I am probably speaking in ignorance.