Does God use the forces of nature to punish us?

[Righteous Indignation]

This post is similar to my previous post which didn’t pass muster, so let’s give it another try.

Many believe that epidemics, hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, volcanoes, floods, tidal waves, and even lightning are punishments from God. I have heard such comments from Pat Robertson , Jerry Falwell, and the Westboro Baptist Church to name a few.

My question is: why would an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient being need to resort to such crude methods? These disasters kill innocent human beings along with the evil ones. Would a loving just father kill his good children to punish his bad?

When bad things happen it’s normal to seek answers but sometimes there are none. I have often heard, "Why did they have to die?" Sometimes there is no why, people just die. It is wrong of others to take advantage of this; claiming that God is punishing us because we are not doing what Pat Robertson , Jerry Falwell, and the Westboro Baptist Church want.

[otseng]

Does God use the forces of nature to punish us?

God could. But in my view, in most cases God does not. At least 99.99999% of the time, the forces of nature can simply be explained by physical natural processes.

There are examples in the Bible where God uses earthquakes, hail, plagues, floods, etc to punish people. But, even those cases are relatively rare.

So, attributing blame or credit of bad weather to God in almost all cases is not appropriate. If anyone is to blame, it would be the devil.

(BTW, excellent example of a debate OP.)

[McCulloch]

At least 99.99999% of the time, the forces of nature can simply be explained by physical natural processes.

In my opinion, you are almost correct. However, if you allow for a rather small proportion of apparently natural events being directly caused by a vengeful God, how is it that you know which ones are and which ones are not. Did God miraculously part the Red Sea for Moses or was that just a coincidental natural process? Did God in the past (read Biblical ages) interfere with nature more than He does now? How do you know? Why would He stop?

There are examples in the Bible where God uses earthquakes, hail, plagues, floods, etc to punish people. But, even those cases are relatively rare.

Relative to what? Are there any examples in the Bible of earthquakes, hail, plagues or floods in the Bible which are not seen as direct agents of God's will or God's wrath? Without doing an exact count, I would guess that the number of these events recorded in the Bible which are to be understood as being God's judgement outnumber by a significant margin, those which are recorded in the Bible as being simply natural processes.

So, attributing blame or credit of bad weather to God in almost all cases is not appropriate. If anyone is to blame, it would be the devil.

That makes sense. The God who spoke the universe into existence, who raises the dead (more than once), who stops the sun in the sky, who cures the leper, gives sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf, who causes the rain to fall on the righteous and on the unrighteous, could certainly not be held to blame or credit for the weather. It must be the devil.

[Righteous Indignation]

otseng wrote:

So, attributing blame or credit of bad weather to God in almost all cases is not appropriate. If anyone is to blame, it would be the devil.

McCulloch wrote:

It must be the devil.

Your hypothesis is that the devil causes natural disasters. A problems with this is; I can not think of one disaster in the Bible attributed to the devil but many attributed to God.

A second problem is: what’s in it for the devil? Even evil beings act in what they believe to be their own self interest so what has the devil got to gain. In a court of law, we might ask what was his motive. The devil as I understand it wants us to sin so he can have our souls. He would probable love to see the whole world having one big drunken gay orgy. Natural disaster kind of put a damper on the party, so I really don’t see what he has to gain from bad weather.

A third problem is we know the true cause of natural disasters. Science can explain them and to some degree predict them. In time we can reasonably assume that our understand of natural disasters will grow and we will be able to decrease the damage they cause making God and the devil ineffectual.

[McCulloch]

It must be the devil.

Your hypothesis is that the devil causes natural disasters.

Oops, I forgot to include the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.

However, you have well explained the concept of the God-of-the-Gaps.

[micatala]

My own two cents is that God does not cause natural disasters, except in the sense that He created a world in which natural disasters occur.

The fact that natural disasters are often (almost always? ) attributed to God in the Bible is, IMV, a product of the world-view of the writers, who saw God as being in control or at least capable of great influence over nature, in a direct and willful way.

Those today who claim to know if and when God is causing natural disasters are hearkening back to this old world-view. I think they are incorrect.

[Aqualung]

I don't believe he does. In the story of the flood, God uses a flood to destroy the earth because all flesh was corrupt, and the earth was corrupt. Then, he promised he would never use a flood to destroy people again, but he never promised the earth would never get corrupted. I think extreme weather conditions and stuff like that are just the result of a corrupt earth.

[McCulloch]

My own two cents is that God does not cause natural disasters, except in the sense that He created a world in which natural disasters occur.

The fact that natural disasters are often (almost always? ) attributed to God in the Bible is, IMV, a product of the world-view of the writers, who saw God as being in control or at least capable of great influence over nature, in a direct and willful way.

Those today who claim to know if and when God is causing natural disasters are hearkening back to this old world-view. I think they are incorrect.

How many natural disasters recorded in the Bible are attributed to God? How many not?

[Righteous Indignation]

I don't believe he does. In the story of the flood, God uses a flood to destroy the earth because all flesh was corrupt, and the earth was corrupt. Then, he promised he would never use a flood to destroy people again, but he never promised the earth would never get corrupted. I think extreme weather conditions and stuff like that are just the result of a corrupt earth.

What does "corrupt earth" mean? My first guess would be it has something to do with a belief that people are not as good as they used to be, but you could also be referring to pollution and/or global warming. Then again, you might mean the earth is corrupted like a corrupted computer file. I'm just a little confused by the term.

[Righteous Indignation]

There seems to be a consensus that natural disasters, like what happened in New Orleans, are not caused by God. This would seem to contradict what Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have stated. Is there no one who will come to their defense?