Did Jesus know God?

[marco]

Pious people tell us that God is merciful and kind; he has provided us with food and clothing and tools, as well as love and beauty and joy sprinkled with the salt of sadness to give it more taste.

Jesus seemed to have special knowledge of God. What extra details has he given that pious folk don't already gather? What peculiar insight has he provided?


Or is Christ's guesswork no better than that of pious individuals? What evidence do we have that Christ knew more than other preachers?

[bjs]

[Replying to Tcg]

You are correct. The last one was not original to Jesus. It can also be traced back to the Jewish scriptures.

[marco]

marco wrote:

Jesus seemed to have special knowledge of God.

Given that Jesus is God the Son, the second person of the Triune Godhead, he does indeed have special knowledge of God the Father, having existed with him eternally, sharing his essence. The same goes for the Holy Spirit who is the third person of the Trinity. When Jesus came to earth as God Incarnate, he set aside his divine attributes to live as a man. But he has them once again as he sits at the right hand of God.

There is much debate about Christ's divinity and he never said he was God, though we can force that meaning into some reported phrase or other of his. That's another discussion. If indeed he's acting a role in a hypostatic union, one would suppose he retains his divinity alongside his humanity. It is odd then that he claims only the Father knows certain things; is he being dishonest, since the Son knows as well as does the Spirit?


Are you suggesting that he has been blinded as well as crucified, with just a pious man's view of heaven? With his intimate access to God, what are the particular indications that he had an extraordinary closeness to heaven? He is full of fine phrases - but short of revealed truth, other than promises for another day.

[marco]

Do you mean things like:

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.� ........


These were all things that pious people had not figured out, and many of those thought to be pious would have declared the opposite to be true.

Confucius lived 500 years before Christ and gave us statements every bit as penetrating and thought-provoking. His version of seeking perfection is:

“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.� This is much better than "Be ye perfect like God!"

When Confucius said: “Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it� there is gentleness in this, and it is in no way inferior to any of Christ's dicta. If they met I suspect Confucius would be the more venerable; Christ would have to redeem himself with a magical trick. The one offers moral beauty for living while the other talks of not coming to give his meat to dogs. I suspect Jesus never saw much beauty.


There is praise and encouragement for those who do not at first succeed. In comparison Christ is cold.
“Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.�

His advice on life is light years better than that of the young Christ.

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.� Christ has little time for wisdom: sackcloth and ashes are the order of the day. Sheep are not wise.

One feels that Christ had neither the wit nor the deep experience to say the following:

“If I am walking with two other men, each of them will serve as my teacher. I will pick out the good points of the one and imitate them, and the bad points of the other and correct them in myself.�

So the humble Confucius demonstrably out-Christs Christ.