First or Last ...?

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First or Last ...?

Post #1

Post by StuartJ »

In the first biblical creation myth, the ancient Canaanite Elohim gods created unspecified numbers of male and female humans as miniature replicas of themselves. They were the Adam Family. The Adam Family were the very LAST thing created

In the second biblical creation myth, the newer (and possibly not even Jewish) Yahweh Elohim god created the mud-man Adam as the very FIRST living thing - and then created animals as a potential wife for him, before finally creating Eve from one of his ribs.

This contradiction in the myths is WAY too large to be a scribal error ...

And through smoke and mirrors of the "apologetics" excuses, I can't see poetry or philosophy or psychology.

Did the Holy Ghost inspire the writing of a glaring contradiction, or do we perhaps have two sequential creation mythologies concerning two very human versions of "God" ...?

Members wishing to actually address the topic as posted may wish to skip the posts by JehovahsWitness.
Last edited by StuartJ on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

QUESTION Are there really two (conflicting) Genesis accounts?

It's not unusual to hear people suggest that there are two different accounts of creation in the book of Genesis. The first going from Genesis chapter 1 through to chapter 2 verse 3 and the second covering Genesis chapter 2:4 to verse 25. A closer look at the accounts however reveals rather than being two different (And contradictory) accounts, we have the same account of events written from two different perspectives.

OVERVIEW OF EVENTS
  • Genesis chapter one effectively presents an "overview" of all seven creative "days" or periods of time. Each "day" focuses on a different stage in the preparation of the earth for human habitation, culminating in the creation, the blessing and basic instructions of the first human couple (male and female) on the sixth day (Gen 1: 26-30) Each period in this "overview" ends with the same expression "And there was evening and there was morning...." (NWT).
Image


DETAILED HISTORY
  • After this the writer goes back on the narrative to focuses on the human story in detail. He introduces this shift in focus with the following expression:
    This is a history of [ * ] the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah* God made earth and heaven. - Genesis 2:4(NWT)
    [ * ] The expression "This is the history of ..." punctuates sections throughout the book of Genesis (compare Gen 5:1; 6:9; 10:1)

    This part of the narrative goes back chronologically to sometime before the creation of Adam and explains the process of the creation of the first human in more detail (Gen 2:5-7). This doesnt mean that there were two Adam's (one in Genesis chapter 1 and a second Adam in chapter 2) any more than it means there were two different wives of Adam (one in Genesis chapter 1 and a second wife in chapter 2), it simply means the writer chose to repeat a particular detail.
A SINGLE STORY WITH NO CONTRADICTIONS
  • So we do not have two different and contradictory accounts we have one account from two different perspectives. The first an overview of the main events and the second a more detailed account of one of those main events. To illustrate, let's look at the following account:
    Mr Jones had a good week. On Monday he got a raise at work, on Tuesday his wife cooked his favourite meal. On Wednesday, he got a a new car and on Thursday his mother-in- law finally went home after staying with them a month. On the Weekend he took his family to their beach house, thus ended Mr Jones week. Now this is what happened with the car. Mr Jones had no car and it would take him over an hour. Then, out of the blue his brother called and offered him his old Honda. ...
    In the above account the expression "Now this is what happened with the car" marks a shift in focus, signalling that the writer is going back chronologically to Wednesday. The expression "Mr Jones had no car" introduces the situation leading up to Wednesday. In a similar way, when we read in Genesis CHAPTER 2
    No bush of the field was yet on the earth and no vegetation of the field had begun sprouting, because Jehovah God had not made it rain on the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist would go up from the earth, and it watered the entire surface of the ground. And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground
    It's the equivalent of "Mr Jones had no car" the writer has gone back (in this case, no to set up the picture of what life was like for Mr Jones before Wednesday) but what the earth was like before man entered the scene.. It doesn't mean that God FIRST created Adam and then created the animals, the narrative simply skips the creation of the animals (since that information has already been provided in "the overview") and continues directly on to the creation of Adam (again) but this time filling in details not previously provided.

CONCLUSION There is no valid reason to conclude that there are two Genesis accounts, by two different writers, presenting conflictory narratives, but rather a single harmonious account focussing on different details







JW


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:49 am, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #3

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: QUESTION Are there really two (conflicting) Genesis accounts?
I have no idea where this question comes from. There is no mention of Genesis in the OP. It's hard to tell if you failed to read the OP, if you didn't understand it, or if you are intentionally trying to derail the discussion.

In any case, here is the question intended to be discussed:

"Did the Holy Ghost inspire the writing of a glaring contradiction, or do we perhaps have two sequential creation mythologies concerning two very human versions of "God" ...?"

It'd be interesting to see you address it.

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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #4

Post by StuartJ »

[Replying to post 3 by Tcg]
It's hard to tell if you failed to read the OP,

if you didn't understand it,

or if you are intentionally trying to derail the discussion.
Three all-too-common ploys of the faith communities.

I'm waiting for the "please explain", "you've offended me", "Stalin was worse", "evolution can't answer it", "atheism is a religion" and other distractions, deflections, dodges and derailments.

I really do have difficulty trusting people of faith when it comes to matters of faith.

You're right - the OP is very simple and direct.

Given that not a verse of "scripture" is EVER shown to have come from any version of "God", the OP deserves simple, direct and honest attention.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.

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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 4 by StuartJ]

Perhaps I misunderstood you, are you not suggesting there are contradictions in the Genesis account? Perhaps you can post a reference to clarify what you are refering to in the OP?
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tcg wrote:

"Did the Holy Ghost inspire the writing of a glaring contradiction,
What contradiction are you refering to?
Tcg wrote:
two sequential creation mythologies ..?"
What "two sequential creation mythologies" are you refering to? Do you have a reference so I can read them for myself?
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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #7

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Tcg wrote:

"Did the Holy Ghost inspire the writing of a glaring contradiction, or do we perhaps have two sequential creation mythologies concerning two very human versions of "God" ...?"

It'd be interesting to see you address it.
What contradiction are you refering to?
Have you not taken note of the fact that I didn't write the OP?

A simple review of the OP provides a very clear answer to your question, however. I'd recommend it.

That, and that you address it rather than continue to dodge it.

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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 7 by Tcg]

Well I've addressed the OP according to my understanding of it, if you think there are issues I am not addressing feel free specifically say what that is you think I should be talking about and provide a biblical reference so I can read up on the point I have missed.


Thanks in advance,



JW
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Re: First or Last ...?

Post #9

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 7 by Tcg]

Well I've addressed the OP according to my understanding of it, if you think there are issues I am not addressing feel free specifically say what that is you think I should be talking about and provide a biblical reference so I can read up on the point I have missed.

Have you reviewed the OP as I recommended? If so please explain why you are continuing to not address it.

If you haven't, then I'd recommend you do so.

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Post #10

Post by StuartJ »

Lying for Jesus can also include pretending not to understand something that does not fit beliefs ...

And cluttering up a topic with material other readers will not want to plough through.
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