Looking Forward to "The End"

[Jagella]

Many parts of the Bible including the Book of Daniel, Matthew 24, and the Book of Revelation have assured people thousands of years ago that the world would soon end most of it destroyed and most people killed and sent to spend eternity in hell (a belief that some members here tell us is good for mental health as proved by a magazine article). Not easily dissuaded by these apparent failures of the "end" to arrive, many Christians look to apologists to assure them that the Bible god's plans must be fulfilled. The result has been the publication of many books today such as the Watchtower's Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand. Apparently Jehovah's Witnesses consider the death of billions of people to be grand.

But such gleeful anticipation of the end of the world cannot be peculiar to Jehovah's Witnesses. No doubt many if not most Christians look forward to the end of this "system of things." So...

Question for Debate: Is it good mentally and socially to look forward to the end of the world?

[FWI]

[Replying to Jagella]

Is it good mentally and socially to look forward to the end of the world?

No, it isn't. But, it also isn't mentally and socially beneficial to ignore God's plan for the future. The bible requires true followers of God's ways to be lights, in the darkness. This is accomplished by living our lives from day to day, in a way, which would be pleasing to God and His Son. The return of God's Kingdom (to this planet) is unknown to humans. Yet, there are signs given, which indicates when it's getting close. So, we should be more concerned about the state of our world and how we can be a more positive influence on it, as well as, paying attention to the signs given to us.

However, the bible also introduces the kind of attitude that will develop among many, where questioning the reality of God's Kingdom returning, as being unrealistic. This will result in a live for today approach and not being concerned about what the future may hold for our world. The obvious example would be the story of Noah, recorded in Genesis.

Unfortunately, this is unavoidable, because it has occurred for many generations before us. But, there will come a time, where the end will actually come and that generation will be caught completely off guard…So, is it good mentally and socially to ignore the catastrophes, which will befall that generation, as long as it doesn't affect ours?

[marco]

Many parts of the Bible including the Book of Daniel, Matthew 24, and the Book of Revelation have assured people thousands of years ago that the world would soon end most of it destroyed and most people killed and sent to spend eternity in hell

As a boy I understood that the received knowledge was that hell was populated mostly by adolescent boys. In today's binary world I don't know if that statistic has changed.

Is it good mentally and socially to look forward to the end of the world?[/size]

This would depend a lot on one's occupation and age and beliefs. At thirteen there's a lot still to do and places to visit. There's no guarantee of getting to see Paris in spring after death. If one likes the colour green and has an appetite for a variety of partners, then the Islamic transition from life to death is a pleasant one.

But from a private perspective I don't particularly look forward to the end of the world, though the endless revelations about the lives of other people might be interesting, until our own turn comes.

[Jagella]

[Replying to Jagella]

Is it good mentally and socially to look forward to the end of the world?

No, it isn't.

Apocalyptic fervor can cause a lot of problems, and people have wasted a lot of time looking for an apocalypse that never arrives. Some have even sold everything they owned thinking earthly possessions would do them no good in heaven only to realize that heaven must wait. Other people might turn to violence believing that it might get the ball rolling, so to speak.

...it also isn't mentally and socially beneficial to ignore God's plan for the future.

I agree that it's a good idea to keep an eye on potentially dangerous apocalyptic sects like the Heaven's Gate and the Branch Davidian churches.

The bible requires true followers of God's ways to be lights, in the darkness. This is accomplished by living our lives from day to day, in a way, which would be pleasing to God and His Son. The return of God's Kingdom (to this planet) is unknown to humans.

It sounds like a game in which you lose if you "get caught with your pants down" (possibly literally). So rather than go about the business of one's life caring for immediate concerns, you need to carefully discern the signs of the times trying to solve the puzzle of just when Jesus will return. If you "get it right," then you win and are rewarded eternal paradise. If you get it wrong, then you lose eternally.

Yet, there are signs given, which indicates when it's getting close. So, we should be more concerned about the state of our world and how we can be a more positive influence on it, as well as, paying attention to the signs given to us.

I used to look for those "signs" when I was a Christian. I watched the news hoping that some war might be one of those "wars and rumors of wars" that heralded the end. Christians like Hal Lindsey were writing books about "the late, great planet earth" making them modern-day apocalyptic prophets. They wrote that some current event was a clue that Jesus was at the very door!

None of them got it right, of course, and the world is still here. Christians remain on earth going about the same tasks of living we all do. It's been almost two thousand years since the first Christians claimed the end was nigh, so "nigh" can mean very far off.

So as I see it, the major problem is that these "signs" of the end are very ambiguous. There has always been trouble in the world like wars and famines and earthquakes. So the end-times prophecies are not terribly impressive to me.

However, the bible also introduces the kind of attitude that will develop among many, where questioning the reality of God's Kingdom returning, as being unrealistic.

It's only common sense to come to that conclusion. The Bible then demands that we set aside our common sense to believe what it says. We are to disregard basic logic to play the end-times game.

This will result in a live for today approach and not being concerned about what the future may hold for our world. The obvious example would be the story of Noah, recorded in Genesis.

Well, citing a myth isn't a good example of why we should believe another apparent myth.

there will come a time, where the end will actually come and that generation will be caught completely off guard…

In that case looking for those signs is futile if we end up getting the time of the end wrong.

So, is it good mentally and socially to ignore the catastrophes, which will befall that generation, as long as it doesn't affect ours?

We should plan for the future, but we need to use our noggins as to what's likely to happen. It's just plain foolish to think that the Bible's end will ever come.

[bjs]

Question for Debate: Is it good mentally and socially to look forward to the end of the world?

The question is too simplistic. Major issues like this are both good and bad in different aspects.

The existential crisis (that is, the recognition of the end of this world and my own personal end within this world, and the nature of meaning and purpose within that context) is a necessary part of our development. Ultimately we cannot grow mentally, socially or ethically without it. In that sense it is good, but rarely pleasant. If we can come out of that crisis with joy instead of despair then that certainly seems good.

One of the weakness of our age is that we have become experts at distracting ourselves. We do not think about the end with joy. We do not think about the end with dread. We simply do not think about the end. We try to remain preoccupied so that the end, either on a personal or universal level, never enters our thinking. That is destructive to our personal growth on every level.

[Jagella]

...from a private perspective I don't particularly look forward to the end of the world, though the endless revelations about the lives of other people might be interesting, until our own turn comes.

"When our own turn comes" I think is the real end we all are obsessed with. I've noticed that people who are old, sick, dying, or otherwise troubled are often those who strongly believe in the Bible's end time. Since they see their own decline and end coming, they project that decline and end onto the world as a whole. When they see the world getting worse, it is actually their own lot that is getting worse. I think that the early Christians thought much like this seeing the troubles of Israel under Rome as a sign that the whole world was coming to an end. So they predicted that a Father Of The Sky would redeem and save them along with other believers. While such a belief might make some people feel good in the short run, I think it's divisive and can lead to paranoia.

[showme]

Many parts of the Bible including the Book of Daniel, Matthew 24, and the Book of Revelation have assured people thousands of years ago that the world would soon end most of it destroyed and most people killed and sent to spend eternity in hell (a belief that some members here tell us is good for mental health as proved by a magazine article). Not easily dissuaded by these apparent failures of the "end" to arrive, many Christians look to apologists to assure them that the Bible god's plans must be fulfilled. The result has been the publication of many books today such as the Watchtower's Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand. Apparently Jehovah's Witnesses consider the death of billions of people to be grand.

But such gleeful anticipation of the end of the world cannot be peculiar to Jehovah's Witnesses. No doubt many if not most Christians look forward to the end of this "system of things." So...

Question for Debate: Is it good mentally and socially to look forward to the end of the world?

The "end" is assured for every man (Jeremiah 31:30). If anyone tells you differently, well, their "end" is just behind the door. Now the choice is how one lives whatever life they have been given. Most spend their lifes as slave to sin, and sickness, which preoccupies their time on earth before death.

[marco]

While such a belief might make some people feel good in the short run, I think it's divisive and can lead to paranoia.

There is much truth in what you say. Samuel Johnson observed: "When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully."

But when old fingers reach for rosary beads I would not deny them the comfort. It is a preparation for resignation. Of course stalwarts like Voltaire were able to turn divine offers aside, when asked to renounce Satan. "This is no time to make new enemies."


I think we must individually walk the path from which no traveller returns. We are not allowed companions, so I suppose the baby's blanket is as good as anything.

[StuartJ]

Come Lord Jesus Come

The title of a song/chorus/hymn/mantra on YouTube:



That includes the lyrics:

With your voice like endless seas
Wielding swords and stars and keys
Bring the nations to their knees, we pray

The wailing voice in this video is imploring his version of "God" to bring about the end of the world.

Good Christians, of course, will have been "Raptured" prior to Jesus crashing through the clouds with sword-wielding angels to exterminate Hindus and homosexuals and smartmouth Atheists and such.

In my view ...

Christianity is a mind trap.

You have your independent self-confidence and mental independence excoriated - insidiously or otherwise.

(Confident, independent, successful, mentally healthy people do NOT convert to Christianity, in my experience.)

You are a worthless sinner.

You are a slave to the concept/s of Jesus.

Your life has no purpose without Jesus.

You will defend your concept/s of Jesus to the point of absurdity because you have been stripped of confident, mental independence ...

... and you are trapped in the cult community.

The cult community is all you have that gives your life purpose and meaning.

You are emotionally/mentally dependent/addicted.

And the entire cult community is simply suffering through this vale of woe until Jesus calls them home individually, or the grand, glorious end comes and they all ascend to their Heavenly reward.

For me, surrendering my mental independence to live with the delusion of creations and floods and god-men and sword-wielding angels and other primitive superstitions and mythologies, until my "real" life begins with Jesus in Heaven for all Eternity, would be counter to the level of intellectual and social evolution that I and my ilk have attained.

I rather think that if I did, I would develop some form of mental health issues.

I may even begin to have visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary, or her Son Jesus, or maybe the Archangel Gabriel will appear unto me and inspire me to write updated "scriptures" ...

Because that is how these things work.

In my view ....

[Jagella]

One of the weakness of our age is that we have become experts at distracting ourselves. We do not think about the end with joy. We do not think about the end with dread. We simply do not think about the end. We try to remain preoccupied so that the end, either on a personal or universal level, never enters our thinking. That is destructive to our personal growth on every level.

Why don't we work together to make the world a better place for ourselves and future generations? If we wallow in religious delusion and paranoia hoping to see the death and destruction of our enemies, then that's what's "destructive to our personal growth on every level."