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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:58 pm
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Hell's Immigrants

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According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Sept 18, 2017 @ 11:36 pm New York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 325,908,667 with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which translates to an average of 7,200 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,234 of the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,670 American adults transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 111 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think: by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones minimum of 55 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,670 condemned souls per 325,908,667 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global population of 7,422,223,068 people, would suggest something like 60,806 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,534 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity in roughly 20 hours and 44 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this morning, then by 02:44 am tomorrow, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher.

Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, storm surges, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution, a mission to Mars, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the price of oil, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls, outsourcing, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare, blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or President Donald Trump's tweets.

If Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:59 pm
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

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Matt 13:42 . . there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church; and was eventually enrolled in catechism classes where I completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Although catechism classes did a good job of instilling within me the reality of hell's eternal fires; it wasn't until I saw a painting by Gustave Doré depicting a scene from Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy that I realized the degree of despair gripping the minds and hearts of people in hell.

People down there know it's permanent; that's what makes hell so much worse than any other source of misery one can possibly imagine. If only they could see a light at the end of the tunnel; but that's just it: there is no end of the tunnel; it loops, like the Large Hadron Collider; within which they just go round and around and around; so to speak.

They say hope springs eternal in the human heart. Well; not down there. No; down there hope is futile. The fires are bad enough; but it's the permanence of hell that I would imagine hurts the most.


Immigration Update: 4 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 243,224 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:28 am
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

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WebersHome wrote:

If Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct;

Christianity is very wrong about Hell, because the Bible directly tells that the fires are to clean and purify people onto salvation.

See here - 1 Corinthians 3:
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? KJV
---

Every person is a child of the Father God, and every person gets saved through the fires of God.

As such I myself expect to get into the "Lake of fire" and it will be a great new adventure.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:58 am
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People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years. I've been on the Earth for just 73, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom; which is roughly akin to the futility of a gnat attempting to drink up the Atlantic ocean. It would also be akin to Forrest Gump thinking he could fill a sieve with water faster by dipping it into a bucket instead of using the tap.

But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Lindsay Lohan expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? I was once discussing the netherworld with a co-worker and he remarked: "Hell won't be so bad; I'll have plenty of friends down there". Yes, he probably will have lots of friends in hell; but I really don't think he should count on them being friendly.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, yelps, howls, and gnashing teeth. I get rather irritated by the behavior of late night comedy audiences. I can only imagine how much worse I'd be annoyed in hell with its thousands and millions of people making all that kind of racket.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.

No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in hell is the absence of fleas and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:06 am
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Sheol, hades and hell all used to represent the abode of the dead waiting for judgement, Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall RETURN to Sheol ... Kiel - Delitzsch(#16): Yea, back to Hades must the wicked RETURN... Now, with hell being revamped as the eternal place of the wicked, the lake of fire, it has morphed. Since the Great White Throne judgement has not yet happened I don't believe that any are banished into the lake of fire yet, nor to the outer darkness if that isn't the same place.

Another consideration is that in Genesis 1 and 3, the serpent is evil above the ordinary animals and cursed more than the ordinary animals. This can be seen to imply that all animals are evil also and under judgment as shown by their being judged with mankind by the flood for their violence...Why add in that thought to the flood story if it has no meaning?

This leads to speculation about the Hindu ideas that the souls of the wicked are reborn as animals with man at the apex. This would indicate that the numbers of the wicked going to hell (back to Sheol) may not be new creations at all but recycled (reincarnated) from the animal kingdom or Sheol itself. Perhaps the knowledge of prior lives held by other religions attests to this also.

This would imply that the numbers of those condemned already is just as fixed a number as the number of the elect. GOD is NOT running a perpetual meat grinder grinding new meat in the least, a horrific thought, but is keeping the world stocked with tares entering the world to live with the sinfully good (elect) seed to help them in their holiness as per the parable of the good seed and the tares, Matt 13.

This convention would need to assume two things, that the sinful elect are not recycled but live once and then return to GOD, Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust (body) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto GOD who gave it (life). and that the multiple lives of the tares does not have any salvational effect upon their state of sinfulness which when understood by the sinful elect teaches them that their hesitation to accept judgement of GOD as righteous because it is too quick, not giving those condemned time to reptent is false idolatry of the tares and that no matter how long they live as human or how many times, they will never repent and so must be banished to the outer darkness.

If your scenario is truth then HE must be creating new hordes of non-elect to be damned all the time, a horrendous thought. People know their Bible and they may know their theology but if they can believe this, they do not know GOD...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:49 pm
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JP Cusick wrote:
Every person is a child of the Father God, and every person gets saved through the fires of God.

As such I myself expect to get into the "Lake of fire" and it will be a great new adventure.


Your erroneous theology is based upon a wrong biblical premise: NOT every person is a child of GOD: Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him, They are not His children because of their defect but are a perverse and crooked generation. OR: ...their defect is that they are not HIS children...

And just to show that Moses is in accord with Jesus, the illegitimate children are mentioned in Heb 12 and have reference in John 8:40 But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41 You are doing the works of your father.” “We are not illegitimate children, they answered. “Our only Father is God Himself.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.…

I know every verse can be corrupted and confounded so I don't think you will agree with me but this is what I found about the children of GOD - OH and don't forget: Matt 13:36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain [no mythos, no allegory, not metaphor, just plain true words] to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” 37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. Two different peoples from two different spiritual fathers.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:49 pm
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JP Cusick wrote:
I myself expect to get into the "Lake of fire" and it will be a great new adventure.


The fire spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15 burns works. The fire spoken of at Rev 20:11-15 burns people.

People walk away alive from the fire spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15. Nobody walks away alive from the fire spoken of at Rev 20:11-15.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:07 pm
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ttruscott wrote:

Two different peoples from two different spiritual fathers.

That is correct, that there are distinctions between "spiritual" fathers.

But there is no physical distinction - we are all physical children of God.

God is our physical Father because all people were created by our Father God.

Not even one sinful sheep shall be lost or left out - so every person gets saved.



-----------------------------------------



WebersHome wrote:

The fire spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15 burns works. The fire spoken of at Rev 20:11-15 burns people.

People walk away alive from the fire spoken of at 1Cor 3:5-15. Nobody walks away alive from the fire spoken of at Rev 20:11-15.

No, they are the same fire.

When I go to the hell-fires then my works will be burned and I get saved as it declares here:

1 Corinthians 3:
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? KJV
---

Every person is a child of the Father God, and every person gets saved through the fires of God.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:28 pm
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Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.


The Divine Comedy
by Dante Alighieri
Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9


Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance to the netherworld: "Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a situation will improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of Dante's concept of the netherworld, despair is a way of life.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:18 am
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

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JP Cusick wrote:

When I go to the hell-fires then my works will be burned and I get saved as it declares here:

1 Corinthians 3:
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? KJV
---

Every person is a child of the Father God, and every person gets saved through the fires of God.

Idea
WebersHome wrote:

Well; down in the Inferno section of Dante's concept of the netherworld, despair is a way of life.

Does not it seem excessively odd that I quote the Bible and the Apostle Paul, but you reference Dante - as if some how these are equal when they are not.

I have heard that Christianity gets its doctrines about Hell from Dante, but for me I really prefer the Bible and even the Apostle Paul is better than that Dante character.

The real Hell is not a place to fear, just as Jesus often said "fear not", and so when I get to Hell then we will have a picnic under the wonderful fires of God.

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