Gods plan versus Free Will

[Donray]

Gods plan versus Free Will

Does God have a plan for people? If so that means people do not have free will since God must control the plan.

I was a project manager before I am a retired and I could not allow any people working on my projects Free Will, they had to do what I wanted period. So, I don’t understand how people can say God has plan for them and yet also have free will. They are mutually incapable.

So the question is does God plan or does God allow free will and no plan?

[polonius]

Gods plan versus Free Will

Does God have a plan for people? If so that means people do not have free will since God must control the plan.

I was a project manager before I am a retired and I could not allow any people working on my projects Free Will, they had to do what I wanted period. So, I don’t understand how people can say God has plan for them and yet also have free will. They are mutually incapable.

So the question is does God plan or does God allow free will and no plan?

RESPONSE: I'm glad you understand.

[ElCodeMonkey]

[Replying to post 1 by Donray]

I don't think you were God-like enough to strip your underlings of their free will. So clearly you had a plan and they retained free will simultaneously. They could have quit with their free will or done something you didn't want and it would simply be bad for your plan.

Or are you indicating God's plan is fundamentally incorruptible? Like, we can't possibly not fulfill his plan for us? Even in that case, it could very well be like throwing a mouse in a maze and putting up walls to make the mouse "choose" with its "free will" to go somewhere. Its choices are reduced yet the free will remains. Although it could stand still and die just as much as we could shoot ourselves in the head, but then that would certainly have to be a part of God's plan for us if we're incapable of wrecking his plans for us.

All this assuming free will actually constitutes anything meaningful. I still don't understand what it even means but that would be a different topic I think .

[Donray]

[Replying to post 3 by ElCodeMonkey]

What you are saying is that we have free will and God does not have a plan.

God does not have a plan if the people he is planning their life can doing anything they want. One must control the plan, or it is not a plan. A plan has a specific stated outcome and there cannot be deviation.

[Dimmesdale]

[Replying to post 3 by ElCodeMonkey]

What you are saying is that we have free will and God does not have a plan.

God does not have a plan if the people he is planning their life can doing anything they want. One must control the plan, or it is not a plan. A plan has a specific stated outcome and there cannot be deviation.

An example I've heard used by Christian apologists is that of chess. Not a very good one in my opinion. The goal of God may be to checkmate the king, and He may be able to do that in various ways even if His opponent (the recalcitrant sinner) may try to foil such a plan.

Suffice it to say (IMO) real life is a lot more complex than this, and also takes into account innumerable wills in a vast world of causes and effects....

[marco]

Gods plan versus Free Will

Does God have a plan for people? If so that means people do not have free will since God must control the plan.

I was a project manager before I am a retired and I could not allow any people working on my projects Free Will, they had to do what I wanted period. So, I don’t understand how people can say God has plan for them and yet also have free will. They are mutually incapable.

So the question is does God plan or does God allow free will and no plan?

The Biblical concept of a being who has confined mortals to a reservaation and has issued them with instructions paints this god as a sort of giant with immense power. If we accept the reservation idea, and the Bible seems to suggest God observes human geographical boundaries, then since we cannot sensibly unsubscribe and wander free of our reservation, we are under God's complete control. If doing what we want on the rservation is allowed, always supposing that if it's not what God likes we'll get punished, then we have the semblance of free will inside our captivity.

Do ants have free will? Who restricts them from nesting somewhere else? We are each restricted by many things, not least our lack of wings, our limited intelligence or our bodily infirmities. If there is such a God, free will is his jest. If there is no such God, we can do what we want as long as we stay alive. And that seems to be the situation just now. I haven't recently heard of a Moses or an Abraham reporting God's ill-favour.