Faith-based beliefs

[William]

There seems to have been a misunderstanding as to the purpose of my first thread on this subject due to the nature of some members making personal comments about other members in their posts, comments which were not directly related to the thread topic, and as a result the thread was locked.

I was using a disclaimer another member often uses, as a means of example - which is not contrary to any of the forum rules - not as a means of personal attack - which is contrary to the forum rules.

Certainly - as can be clearly seen, the OP does not make any such thing as a personal comment/attack or debate against any individual member.

The way I see it, debating is a form of schooling, in which the participants are both teaching and learning, whereas proselytizing clearly has no intention of learning, and in that is not teaching so much as preaching.

Is it fair that individuals use such a platform as a debate forum to preach from, when it is clear that their intention is not to debate at all, but to consistently spam the forum with their particular brand of organised religious indoctrination?

It is clear that the forum rules allow for some proselytizing to occur as a matter of 'par for the course', but when it is clear that individuals are not interested in any actual debate - especially in regard to their own particular sect - and even go to lengths to make disclaimers in order to avoid having to. Does this contravene the rules sufficiently to be dealt with in the same manner as any other type of rule breaking is dealt with?

Faith-based beliefs...Are they debatable?

What do you think?

PS - please don't use the OP question as an opportunity to make personal unrelated comments against other members. Just answer the question the OP is asking.

Thanks.

[Tcg]

I was using a disclaimer another member often uses, as a means of example - which is not contrary to any of the forum rules - not as a means of personal attack - which is contrary to the forum rules.

Let's take a look at the opening to your closed thread to see if your present claim is accurate:

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

"The disclaimer above clearly indicates that the individual is not here to debate anything, but only to proselytize her particular sect." - William.

Sounds exactly like a personal attack to me. Of course someone else got dinged for it and now you are attempting to pretend it is their fault your thread got shut down.

Sorry, William, your excuse quite clearly doesn't add up.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 1 by William]

Faith-based beliefs...Are they debatable?

Yes.

The faith-based beliefs debated here are (almost always) based on the biblical writings

The debates here and elsewhere demonstrate that believers can have the biblical writings mean whatever they choose them to mean ...

Without the tiniest scrap of evidence that so much as a verse of them came from any version of "God"

And people will devote their lives and their minds and their money to these contradictory, evidence-free, faith-based beliefs

So ...

Not only are they debateable ...

They SHOULD be very strongly debated

So folks can choose the beliefs with evidence to support them.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 2 by Tcg]

Sounds exactly like a personal attack to me. Of course someone else got dinged for it

The original OP criticism was obviously personal.

I thought the criticism valid.

Even though I did not name the criticisee (a neologism) my criticism concerned an individual member.

My posts here are intentionally blunt and sharp ...

They confront ...

They are meant to.

If they affront ...

I deserve to get dinged.

Consistency in the dinging would be appreciated.

[Tart]

Faith-based beliefs...Are they debatable?

What do you think?

Personally i think people have misconceptions of "faith based beliefs"... Its like people suggest that because of "faith" its ok to believe in things that arent true... That isnt what faith in Christ is about....

Certainly Christian beliefs can be debatable, whether they are objectively true or not... But is it beneficial to debate them? is a question i ask myself... Because it is far more important to live by your beliefs, then to speak by them, and in Christianity that means to live by the spirit.. It is more important to live by the Spirit, then to debate with someone if the spirit exists...

But certainly, even the Disciples flat out said so, that if Christianity isnt true no one should believe it, Paul literally said "our faith is useless" if Christ wasnt really risen from the dead... So this Christian concept of faith isnt about getting you to believe in things that arent true...

[William]

[Replying to post 5 by Tart]

To cut to the chase here Tart.

Q: Do you think that your faith-based beliefs are debatable?

It appears to me at least - by the way you express said beliefs - that they are beyond debate.

Would that be a fair observation on my part?

[Tart]

[Replying to post 5 by Tart]

To cut to the chase here Tart.

Q: Do you think that your faith-based beliefs are debatable?

It appears to me at least - by the way you express said beliefs - that they are beyond debate.

Would that be a fair observation on my part?

Im not too sure about what "faith based beliefs" you are referring to, can you be more specific? If it is about the objective nature of Jesus Christ, whether it is true or not, that he is the risen messiah, ya I think that is debatable... I debate it all the time.. In fact i encourage people to think critically about the subject, everyone. I press anyone to give a valid explanation that makes sense of the evidence. Some kind of coherent and comprehensive explanation that makes sense of the Christian evidence from any given point of view... Because personally, i know of only one valid coherent and comprehensive explanation... Jesus was the Risen Messiah...

[William]

[Replying to post 7 by Tart]

Im not too sure about what "faith based beliefs" you are referring to, can you be more specific?

Well, rather than me having to make the assumption, since as I said - 'it appears to me' Tart, please provide an example of your most highly regarded belief which you accept on faith, if indeed you have any.

[Tart]

[Replying to William]

Well, I question what role Faith plays in accepting Christ as Savior... How i came about my belief in Jesus as my Savior is I stumbled upon prophecy, and I started to investigate Christianity. I saw things that appeared true in prophecy, so I read the New Testament, and I was blown away. It was literally the most clarifying time in my life. When my life didnt make sense before, this was the key to making sense of life. And upon that experience I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savoir. So what role did faith play in this experience? I suppose some, i remember it did feel like a leap of Faith to actually take the plunge.. I saw Christianity as true, and the missing piece of my puzzle, and then i took the leap of Faith to actually call on and say Christ is my savior... So thats that... I dont think it is like some kind of belief, based on no objective evidence at all, but faith alone, like some people seem to suggest... Or that Faith is like belief in false truth, like some people suggest... Like i said, Paul wrote that if Christ wasnt really risen from the dead, then our Faith is useless...

(1 Corinthians 15)
"17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile"


Also, another role Faith plays is in our daily life... The Scripture says "the righteous will live by Faith"... And i think that is a perfect expression of righteousness... I dont think it is possible to live faithfully if, for example, we are sinning... And it is Faithful to live under the spirit (talked about in Galatians 5)... That we can go through any trial, even evil pressing in on us, even up till death (all the martyrs right up to Jesus were put to death, while they faithfully died trusting in God)... Faith is a perfect expression of righteousness, and it is to live Faithfully that an all knowing, all loving, all powerful God is in control...

So those are the two aspects i take on Faith.

[William]

[Replying to post 9 by Tart]

So those are the two aspects i take on Faith.

So will you now state in one sentence each, what exactly these two things you take on faith are please, for the sake of simplicity.

1: "I take on faith_____________________________________."
2: "I take on faith_____________________________________."

Thanks.