When did Christians begin to think Jesus was Divine.

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polonius
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When did Christians begin to think Jesus was Divine.

Post #1

Post by polonius »

The title "son of God" is frequent in the Old Testament. The word "son" was employed among the Semites to signify not only filtration, but other close connection or intimate relationship.

Israelite s (Deuteronomy 14:50); and of Israel, as a nation, we read: "And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn.

“Most Jews no longer believe in a coming Messiah. Of the three main branches within Judaism, only orthodox Jews tend to hold to this hope and they do not conceive of Messiah as divine; he is merely a human being. “

When did the early Christians begin to claim that Jesus was a divine Messiah and what happened to them because of this view?

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Re: When did Christians begin to think Jesus was Divine.

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

polonius wrote: The title "son of God" is frequent in the Old Testament. The word "son" was employed among the Semites to signify not only filtration, but other close connection or intimate relationship.

Israelite s (Deuteronomy 14:50); and of Israel, as a nation, we read: "And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn.

“Most Jews no longer believe in a coming Messiah. Of the three main branches within Judaism, only orthodox Jews tend to hold to this hope and they do not conceive of Messiah as divine; he is merely a human being. “

When did the early Christians begin to claim that Jesus was a divine Messiah and what happened to them because of this view?
Soon after the Resurrection. (Not before, any Gospel indication to the contrary is the Evangelist engaging in revisionism, mainly John). Then, they were expelled from the Synagogue. Don't have the exact dates, but that is the sequence as I understand it.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

brianbbs67
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Post #3

Post by brianbbs67 »

IIRC, it was 85 AD when Christians were kicked out of the synagogues. For the reason of calling Yeshua, God or a god. So, 60 years of him only being a teacher in the Hebrew faith and then God status was obtained.

polonius
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The passing of the Ways

Post #4

Post by polonius »

Brian is basically correct in the above post, but I might suggest break between Christianity and Judaism may have been a few years either way from 85 A.D.

Following the death of Jesus, the Christian-Jews continued to be observant Temple worshippers.

The central issuewas the basic

polonius
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The Parting of the Ways

Post #5

Post by polonius »

Brian is basically correct in the above post, but I might suggest that the break between Christianity and Judaism may have been a few years either way from 85 A.D.

Wkipedia
“The Book of Acts reports that the early followers continued daily Temple attendance and traditional Jewish home prayer. Other passages in the New Testament gospels reflect a similar observance of traditional Jewish piety such as fasting, reverence for the Torah and observance of Jewish holy days. Jesus was a pious Jew, worshipping the Jewish God, preaching interpretations of Jewish law and accepted as the Jewish Messiah by his disciples.[citation needed] Proponents of higher criticism claim that regardless of how one interprets the mission of Jesus, that he must be understood in context as a 1st-century Palestinian Jew.[“


Following the death of Jesus, the Christian-Jews continued to be observant Temple worshipers. Theirs was a sect of Temple worshiping Jews known as "The Way" or "The Nazarenes."



Acts 2:2-24 (Peter speaking c. 80 AD)

"2 You who are Israelites, hear these words. Jesus the Nazarene was a man commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst, as you yourselves know. 23 This man, delivered up by the set plan and foreknowledge of God, you killed, using lawless men to crucify him.
24But God raised him up (not "he rose") , releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it."


The central dispute leading to "the parting of the ways" was the basic Jewish Commandment

Sh'ma Yisra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
"Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."

When Christians claimed that Jesus too was divine, they broke this commandment

John 16:2 (written about 95 AD)
"They will expel you from the synagogues; in fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he is offering worship to God."

Encyclopedia of Judaism
12 Benediction : Under Rabban Gamaliel II (first century C.E.) this prayer was invoked against the Judeo-Christian and Gnostic sects and other heretics who were called by the general term min (plural minim). To avoid any suspicion of heresy, the hazzan had to be certain to recite this prayer in public worship.

bjs
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Post #6

Post by bjs »

If the Book of Acts is accurate, they begin publicly preaching that Jesus is God at Pentecost, fifty days after his execution.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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Post #7

Post by Tcg »

bjs wrote: If the Book of Acts is accurate, they begin publicly preaching that Jesus is God at Pentecost, fifty days after his execution.
A quick review of Acts chapter 2 includes these verses:

Acts 2:22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross."

Jesus is clearly referred to as a man. A man God worked through. Not a God who appeared as a man.

polonius
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Post #8

Post by polonius »

bjs wrote: If the Book of Acts is accurate, they begin publicly preaching that Jesus is God at Pentecost, fifty days after his execution.
RESPONSE:

1. The book of Acts was written in the 80;s

2. That would be 50 years after the death of Jesus.
I can find so such citation that you are claiming. So please provide the citation you are referring to. Please note that Perter is quoted as saying that Jesus was a man favored by God, that is, not divine himself.

Acts 2:2-24 (Peter speaking c. 80 AD)

"2 You who are Israelites, hear these words. Jesus the Nazarene was a man commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst, as you yourselves know. 23 This man, delivered up by the set plan and foreknowledge of God, you killed, using lawless men to crucify him.

24But God raised him up (that is, he apparently didn't have the power to "rise" from the dead.) , releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it."

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Post #9

Post by Elijah John »

bjs wrote: If the Book of Acts is accurate, they begin publicly preaching that Jesus is God at Pentecost, fifty days after his execution.
It amazes me how the apologist could get that intepretation from the book of Acts, when the previous few posts demostrate the exact opposite from the very same book.

Is Acts 2.22-24 the passage you had in mind to make your claim? Is there something we are missing?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

polonius
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Post #10

Post by polonius »

bjs wrote: If the Book of Acts is accurate, they begin publicly preaching that Jesus is God at Pentecost, fifty days after his execution.
RESPONSE:
Acts 2:22-24 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
22 “You that are Israelites,[a] listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with deeds of power, wonders, and signs that God did through him among you, as you yourselves know— 23 this man, handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside the law. 24 But God raised him up, having freed him from death,[c] because it was impossible for him to be held in its power.

QUESTION: Are you claiming that "they begin publicly preaching that Jesus is God at Pentecost, " by this paragraph?

Nothing in this paragraph says that. How do you come up with that interpretation?

From now on when you try to argue scripture to prove a point, please list your precise reference. Not what you think it says. Thanks.

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