Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

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William
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Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #1

Post by William »

As I have been pondering more implicitly about the question of nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs - particularly for the purpose of being able to identify arguments which are a waste of time even attempting to debate, and those which are not - I have come up with a short list of common - mainly Christian based ones - which I thought I would throw out there to see what others think.

Feel free to add other nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs you think should be on this list as well.


My picks
1: The GOD of the OT is 'The one and only true GOD'.
2: Jesus was the promised Messiah
3: Jesus was a messenger of the OT GOD.
4: The bible is the 'inerrant word of GOD'

I have thought of others, but since they can be subsets of these 4 main ones, see little point in listing them.


Q: What can definitely be considered nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs?

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Post #2

Post by Overcomer »

These are the non-negotiable, primary doctrines of Christianity:

There is only one God (monotheism) and that one God exists as a Trinity -- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are one in essence and are co-eternal.

Jesus is the second person of the Trinity, that is, God the Son.

Jesus was born of a virgin, coming to earth as God Incarnate. As such, he was fully God and fully man.

Jesus died on the cross to atone for the sins of humankind. Only a man could die for the sins of humanity, but God demanded a perfect sacrifice, that is, a sacrifice that is unblemished (sin-free), However, all of humanity is born in sin so none of us could ever be that sacrifice. That's why Jesus HAD to be both God and man -- as a man he could die in our place; as God he was sin-free. And that's why Jesus and Jesus alone saves.

Jesus rose from the dead and, as God the Son, he currently sits at the right hand of God the Father.

Jesus will return at an unknown point when he will judge the world.

Salvation is a gift from Jesus given to those who accept it in faith. Works have no part of salvation.

The Holy Spirit is a person, not just an impersonal force.

See here for some of the many Scripture verses that back up these statements:

https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

There have been people who have started religions, claiming them to be Christian, but they deny most of what I have written above which means they are only pretenders. I am not allowed to name them on this forum. However, one only has to read what some people write here to know that they do not subscribe to the above essential doctrines of Christianity. The one thing they have in common is the denial of the deity of Jesus Christ. They have written their own religious books and one group has even re-written the Bible to make it line up with their beliefs.

Paul warned Christians to be wary of such people, writing, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" (Gal. 1:8-9, NIV).

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

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Post #4

Post by Overcomer »

Tart wrote:
Jesus saves!
Amen to that, Tart!

But it has to be the real Jesus, not the fake ones that some people try to pass off as the real thing.

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #5

Post by Guy Threepwood »

William wrote: As I have been pondering more implicitly about the question of nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs - particularly for the purpose of being able to identify arguments which are a waste of time even attempting to debate, and those which are not - I have come up with a short list of common - mainly Christian based ones - which I thought I would throw out there to see what others think.

Feel free to add other nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs you think should be on this list as well.


My picks
1: The GOD of the OT is 'The one and only true GOD'.
2: Jesus was the promised Messiah
3: Jesus was a messenger of the OT GOD.
4: The bible is the 'inerrant word of GOD'

I have thought of others, but since they can be subsets of these 4 main ones, see little point in listing them.


Q: What can definitely be considered nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs?

Any faith based belief which does not recognize itself as such. aka blind faith.

For a perfect example we need look no further than what was arguably the greatest scientific question of all time:

Is the universe eternal, or did it have a beginning?

The explicit reason Hoyle and many other atheists were so certain about steady state, was because the alternative, the mere notion of a beginning to the universe itself, was inherently 'religious pseudoscience' and hence should be dismissed out of hand

Once you have definitively labelled something entirely off the negotiating table, the remaining alternative is, by definition, non-negotiable. That's the ultimate weakness of framing any belief as a 'non-belief' of anything else

It allows questioning only of the beliefs of others, rather than one's own beliefs. Which makes critical thinking impossible by definition.

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #6

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to post 1 by William]

One of the most astounding nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs I've seen is the faith some people have that an experience of some form that occurs while they are alive provides proof of an afterlife.

Some who hold this faith-based belief go so far as to claim they know what the afterlife will be like. That's a faith-based belief stacked on top of another faith-based belief.

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #7

Post by William »

[Replying to post 6 by Tcg]

Do you have evidence that such is actually faith-based and nonnegotiable? Certainly I myself have seen no such evidence that said belief is nonnegotiable, or even faith-based.

The operative wording in the OPQ is "What can definitely be considered..."

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #8

Post by William »

[Replying to post 5 by Guy Threepwood]
Any faith based belief which does not recognize itself as such. aka blind faith.

For a perfect example we need look no further than what was arguably the greatest scientific question of all time:

Is the universe eternal, or did it have a beginning?
I am not sure as to where the faith part comes into the example you have given here Guy. Can you point it out?

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #9

Post by Guy Threepwood »

William wrote: [Replying to post 5 by Guy Threepwood]
Any faith based belief which does not recognize itself as such. aka blind faith.

For a perfect example we need look no further than what was arguably the greatest scientific question of all time:

Is the universe eternal, or did it have a beginning?
I am not sure as to where the faith part comes into the example you have given here Guy. Can you point it out?
Hoyle refused to accept the Big Bang till his dying day in the 80's - his belief in some sort of static God-refuting universe remained non-negotiable, because the alternative was 'impossible'

what was this based on, evidence??


We all have faith, beliefs, whether we recognize them or not, and whether we label them as 'non-beliefs' of alternatives

Of course you may find it very difficult to change the mind of a person with a particular religious faith, but they are at least able to discuss their reasoning and evidence for the belief with you

But refusing to recognize a faith at all, is what makes it truly non-negotiable, - entirely off the negotiating table - aka blind faith

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Re: Identifying nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs

Post #10

Post by bjs »

[Replying to William]

What do you mean by non-negotiable?

Do you mean things a person must believe to be an orthodox Christians, the way Overcomer does?

Or do you mean things that people believe on blind faith without critical thinking, the way Guy does?
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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