The Identity of the Beast of Revelation and His Mark

[christiang]

I just finished a new study on what the "beast of Revelation" actually is, and how it relates to what is already forming in Europe as a United States of Europe, and what the "mark of the beast" actually is, and how it relates to the greatest financial ponzi scheme that has ever existed on the earth, and how the United States relates to these visions in the book of Revelation, and who the "antichrist" actually is, and what he uses right now to rule over all the nations of the earth. Take a read, some of the information in the study may have things you've probably already heard, but there is a deeper and shocking truth that many overlook in how this "antichrist" rules over our daily lives, over everyone, rich and poor, small and great, believer and non-believer. http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2018/12/07/th ... ng-of-666/ .

[showme]

[Replying to showme]

quote]The "Christian" concept of hell apparently changes with the weather as the church becomes more and more progressive.

IMO, Christianity has experienced both extremes. Those who teach fire and brimstone and tell sinners they are all going to hell offering no help, mercy, or forgiveness. And those who teach the equally dangerous lie that hell does not exist or as long as you’re a “nice� person it isn’t something to worry about –God loves us just the way we are.

Christ’s Church doesn’t cower from the truth when speaking about hell (narrow is the gate -- neither drunkards or fornicators will make it to heaven), but she also makes sure not leave out God’s love and mercy and how with God all things are possible.

[/quote]

You seem to be mixing the kingdom of heaven, at hand (Matthew 4:17), which is the power and Spirit of God, with the kingdom of God, which is at the door (Matthew 24:33), and involves the "son of man" judging between the sheep and the goats, and ruling the "nations" and "Israel" from Jerusalem. (Zechariah 14:16) & (Revelation 19:15). "Narrow" is the "gate" that leads to "life" (Matthew 7:13-14). The "way is broad", which leads to destruction. "Fornicators" apparently don't enter into the "kingdom of heaven, at hand", and are on the "broad" "way" to "destruction". That destruction, for 1/3 of mankind, will be the result of fire, smoke and brimstone (Revelation 9:18), on earth, by means of the "locust" of Revelation 9:17. Hell, which is Sheol, which is the grave, is death, and there is no consciousness in death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

The "mercy" of God is that the "wicked" will be granted a second death after the white throne judgment, where they are given a review of the deeds of their lives. Better death, than knowledge of who they were. "All things are possible" is with regards to the rich man entering into the kingdom of heaven. To enter into the kingdom of heaven at hand, one must be more righteous than the Pharisees. (Matthew 5:20). Abraham was a rich man, yet he was righteous in the eyes of God.

[JehovahsWitness]

You seem to be mixing the kingdom of heaven, at hand (Matthew 4:17), which is the power and Spirit of God, with the kingdom of God, which is at the door (Matthew 24:33), ...

So what, in your opinion is "the kingdom of heaven" ?

And what is "the kingdom of God"?

I'm not asking you what they DO but what are they?

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 155 by Clownboat]

About 40,000 denominations of Christianity and you think you can hide behind Catholicism? Catholicism can be shown no more true than any other version. Stop pretending that it is special as you do yourself a disservice.

I promise not to hide behind Catholicism if you promise to for even one post get accurate what it is the Church actually teaches. Deal?

No deal. Even Christians cannot agree on their god and what their religious promotional material means, thus why we have so many different flavors of churches.
Therefore to expect an unbeliever to get your religion right for you is nonsensical.

My beliefs about hell are what the Catholic Church teaches about hell and yes hell is real.

It's real because you have faith in what the Catholic Church teaches. My dear sir, you will need to do better if you would like your claims to be taken seriously.

I’m afraid however, you might not understand what is meant by hell

Nobody does. This point escapes you though. All we have is believers placing faith in different church teachings. You picked Catholicism. Woo pity doodah.

Again, it is not my personal version. It is the teaching of Christ’s Church and I have no idea what other versions are. I’m only interested in the version that is true.

It seems that you are interested in keeping Catholic beliefs, nothing wrong with that, but you are not showing an interest in which version is true, just which version is Catholic.

Incorrectly taught, IMO if you were told Catholics go to heaven and non-Catholics don’t. That isn’t the full story so quit misrepresenting.

I was not taught this. Therefore, your words above that I bolded for you, those are meant for you. Some irony huh?

However, you seem to apparently have a blanket condemnation of the Catholic Church.

Nope, I treat them the same as I would just about any denomination/version of a religion. It is you that sees Catholicism in its own special light. Please stop projecting your actions on to others.

Hmmm . . . I know you think you have it all figured out. Why don’t you tell me what I believe?

You seem to believe what is in the religious promotional material that is the Bible. That is where your faith lies and you call placing faith in the religious promotional material that is the Bible, 'reasonable'.

What did you make of the ineffective punishing god that it portrays?

And for your net question . . . “When did you stop beating your wife?�

How rude. I spell out what I mean and provided specifics. How about you provide that level of detail for me beating my wife!

It would be my opinion that your loaded question shows your understanding of the Bible is inaccurate.

Your opinion is of what value here in debate? How about you respond to my questions? That is how debate works after all. So the ineffective punishing god that I laid out to you in Bible stories... What do you make of it? Do you find the ineffective punishments that I laid out to be effective? If so, I'm all ears.

God creates humans, calls them good. Next thing you know, he is punishing humans by kicking them out of the garden of eden.

If that is your interpretation of the Bible, might I suggest you missed a few things.

You in fact have not even suggested that my interpretation is wrong. You can only offer to suggest that I'm wrong. I have zero interest in placing my faith in your offering. Now, on the other hand, if you can 'show' that I'm wrong, I want to know.

What did that punishment accomplish?
Next thing we know, he is flooding the entire planet because they once again rebelled against him. Now what did that punishment accomplish?

There are answers to all of your questions if in fact you are serious about seeking truth.

Readers, once again his faith seems to be on display. It seems that he has faith that there are answers to all of my questions. Funny how his faith in these answers provided us with zero actual answers.

The meaning of Jephthah is complex.

I'm not referring to any deep meaning in the story, just the story itself where an old testament god follower sacrificed to the said god for a victory in battle. At least she was a virgin though! Could you imagine how upset your god might have gotten if Jephthah sacrificed a non virgin to him! The horror.

I'm going to guess that your version of the story attempts to downplay this virgin being sacrificed to your god. What about the virgin Jesus, another virgin sacrifice to appease the god? I dare say Isaac was a virgin as well... What is it with all the gods and their desires for virgin sacrifices anyway? Not just your god concept either. Sure would be nice to read about one mythical god that doesn't demand virgin sacrifices.

The story is not simply about human sacrifice and certainly not about God demanding human sacrifice.

Correct, that would be the Isaac story where he demands a virgin sacrifice.

The story is more about not making foolish promises.

So he allowed this virgin girl to be sacrificed to him, just so he could tell a story about not making foolish promises? That right there is evil.

Clearly you have reduced it, as many atheists are want to do, to some horrific story about an evil god.

It is a horrific story and I'm not an atheist.
Even with your terrible spin about how he allowed a virgin to be sacrificed to him so he could tell us not to make foolish promises, it is still a horrific story.
The gods and their virgins. Oh hum...

Riiiiiiiight . . . . your fallacy is implying having followers makes something reasonable.

Name the fallacy you are accusing me of please.
You said Islam is not reasonable. I showed how you are incorrect by evidencing billions of people that find it to be reasonable. Having followers itself does not make something reasonable.

I wouldn’t believe a religion based on that criteria alone, because it would be unreasonable.

Ironically, it's as trustworthy as believing something because of faith.

So many errors in your above statement. First, I already explained my religious beliefs stem from Faith AND Reason, but you continue to ignore that.

That's because you have placed faith in a religious holy book. Your reason for belief is no different than that of a Muslim or Hindu.
I do ignore you calling your faith reasoned though. That you would need to demonstrate and so far, your faith is no different.

Second, it would be false to claim faith does not enter the picture for non-religious claims – LOL!

I don't have faith in anything, sorry.

Hmmm . . . yes children must take their parents word for a number of things – sticking a fork in the electrical outlet is not a good idea, placing that plastic bag over the head is not a good idea. How cruel to indoctrinate our children. We ought to let them figure these things out on their own. There will be plenty of time for the child to understand what it is they have been taught.

Now you are being silly to compare electricity, something we know all sorts about to your preferred mythical god concept.

I never said you must. Please follow along. I'm claiming that you believe in talking donkeys and such because of faith in the Bible. Faith in a Holy Book is the same mechanism a Muslim uses. That is what is being pointed out, not that you must believe Islamic claims.

But again, that is neither here nor there and doesn’t even say anything.

False, for one it says that you believe in unreasonable things like talking animals because of an old book. You're not alone though as Muslims and Hindus are right up there with you.

It would be like saying I found a map that I find to be authentic, accurate and good and it helped me find X.

Can I see this map, or must I believe it on faith. It's not reasonable to believe due to faith after all.

And you claiming Muslims say they found a map that helped them find Y, so you erroneously conclude we both have used the same mechanism. But it isn’t the same mechanism. They are two different maps! Why would I follow a bogus map just because it is a map?

And here is where you and I are different.
DON'T TRUST MAPS FOR BEING MAPS, TRUST MAPS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN SHOWN THAT THEY WORK AND THAT THEY ARE TRUSTWORTHY. IF YOU ARE GIVEN A MAP THAT YOU MUST BELIEVE IS TRUSTWORTHY BECAUSE OF FAITH, THEN DON'T USE SUCH A MAP!
I'm being presented with two different 'maps' here. The Christian map and the Muslim map. I can apply my faith to either and become a believer in the map. You continue to ignore this fact and pretend that animals can talk and men can live in the belly of a whale and that dead bodies can reanimate and walk the streets as being reasonable. In reality, such things are not reasonable.

Your reason is that you have placed faith in a book. If that was actually a good reason like you claim, then the Muslim also has good reason to believe in their preferred god concept.

I have placed my faith in God and His Church.

I have known this from the start, you can go now and choose to continue to place your faith in a god and his church. You might even decide one day to place your faith in a different god and his church.

[showme]

You seem to be mixing the kingdom of heaven, at hand (Matthew 4:17), which is the power and Spirit of God, with the kingdom of God, which is at the door (Matthew 24:33), ...

So what, in your opinion is "the kingdom of heaven" ?

And what is "the kingdom of God"?

I'm not asking you what they DO but what are they?

The "kingdom of heaven, at hand" (Matthew 4:17 & 10:6-8), which the disciples preached to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the leapers, and casting out demons, is about the power and Spirit of God, "at hand". That would be "His kingdom" of Matthew 6:33, whereas if you find it, "all these things shall be added to you", and while you actually need them.

The "kingdom of God", would refer to the kingdom under David, whereas the combined sticks of Ephraim and Judah will "live on the land I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:24-26), under the covenant of "peace". That kingdom follows the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21, whereas the "son of man" will come with his angels, followed by "I will judge between one sheep and another" (Ezekiel 34:22), and between the sheep and the goats (Ezekiel 34:20-24), and will set "over them one shepherd, My servant David. The nations/Gentiles, "who are left", would be ruled by a "rod of iron", and come to worship the king at Jerusalem every year (Zechariah 14:16). The "field will yield its fruit", "I will eliminate harmful beasts", and "they will no longer be prey to the nations" (Ezekiel 34:25-28).

[onewithhim]

I just finished a new study on what the "beast of Revelation" actually is, and how it relates to what is already forming in Europe as a United States of Europe, and what the "mark of the beast" actually is, and how it relates to the greatest financial ponzi scheme that has ever existed on the earth, and how the United States relates to these visions in the book of Revelation, and who the "antichrist" actually is, and what he uses right now to rule over all the nations of the earth. Take a read, some of the information in the study may have things you've probably already heard, but there is a deeper and shocking truth that many overlook in how this "antichrist" rules over our daily lives, over everyone, rich and poor, small and great, believer and non-believer. http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2018/12/07/th ... ng-of-666/ .

I may have responded to your post before, I don't remember. But I have studied this subject for years, and I think it is obvious that "the beast" of Revelation isn't any one particular nation, but is an amalgam of all nations of the earth. Indeed, all nations have been influenced by the Great Whore of Babylon (all false religion) that has been "riding on the back" of the Beast.

The "antichrist" is not an individual, but is the general attitudinal influence of all religions in opposition to Christ and his rule. Indeed, the Apostle John said that "there are now many antichrists," which means that the antichrist attitude was alive and well in his day.(I John 4:3)

The mark of the Beast is simply the outward attitude of people toward God's Kingdom. If they have no confidence in God's own government and put all their hopes and their efforts into supporting the governments of men, then they have this "mark of the Beast" on their foreheads and their hands. "666" merely means that the Beast---all the governments of men---is severely lacking in what is good and godly; the number 7 is perfection, so the number 6 emphasized three times means that the human governments are WAY short of perfection.

See www.jw.org and search for the Beast of Revelation.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 4 by showme]

No. And that doesn't even make sense either, the first beast is one beast. And the second beast is another beast. The second beast is not a head of the first beast, otherwise there wouldn't be a "second" beast. Be logical.

The "second" beast is the Anglo-American world power, which gave life to the "image of the Beast," the United Nations, zeroing in on more facets of the world-wide conglomeration of human governments. You'll notice that the "Image of the wild beast" went out of existence (as the League of Nations) but came back (as the United Nations after 1945). (Revelation 13:14,15)

This will all be, perhaps, far-fetched, to the majority of mankind, but if you study this further it may begin to make sense. www.jw.org

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

The Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation is that the land beast represents the anglo-american world power; it corresponds to the little horn of Daniel chap 7 & 8

The "little horn" of Danie 7:7, of the "fourth beast", Rome, is different from the "small horn" of Daniel 8:9, which represents Antiochus. Both horns represented kingdoms which destroyed Jerusalem, and persecuted the saints and suspended sacrifice. Antiochus, like the false prophet Paul, suspended circumcision while at the same time promoted eating swine.

No, those beasts could not mean the Roman caesars because Revelation is said to be about "the Lord's Day," which would be the last days, future from the days of the Apostle John (who wrote Revelation).

John wrote: "By inspiration I came to be in the Lord's Day." (Rev.1:10) That it was to take place much later than John's day is indicated at Rev.5:5, referring to after Jesus would begin his rule, which hadn't happened at that time.

"One of the elders says to me: 'Stop weeping. Look! The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its 7 seals.'"

He conquered 2,000 years after John wrote Revelation.


Check out www.jw.org

[showme]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

The Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation is that the land beast represents the anglo-american world power; it corresponds to the little horn of Daniel chap 7 & 8

The "little horn" of Danie 7:7, of the "fourth beast", Rome, is different from the "small horn" of Daniel 8:9, which represents Antiochus. Both horns represented kingdoms which destroyed Jerusalem, and persecuted the saints and suspended sacrifice. Antiochus, like the false prophet Paul, suspended circumcision while at the same time promoted eating swine.

No, those beasts could not mean the Roman caesars because Revelation is said to be about "the Lord's Day," which would be the last days, future from the days of the Apostle John (who wrote Revelation).

John wrote: "By inspiration I came to be in the Lord's Day." (Rev.1:10) That it was to take place much later than John's day is indicated at Rev.5:5, referring to after Jesus would begin his rule, which hadn't happened at that time.

"One of the elders says to me: 'Stop weeping. Look! The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its 7 seals.'"

He conquered 2,000 years after John wrote Revelation.


Check out www.jw.org

The "son of man is the Lord of the Sabbath", which is to say, the Sabbath is the Lord's day, which is the 7th day of the week, and representative of the 7th millennium, when king David will rule (Ezekiel 37:24). The nations will all be crushed prior to the son of man setting up an everlasting kingdom (Daniel 7:13-14). (Revelation 16:13-16) is about Har-Magedon, which is when the nations are gathered to be "crushed" (Daniel 2:35 & 44-5) & Hosea 3:2 & 12. The nations to be "crushed" include the last one being "iron" and "clay", which is Rome mixed with the common red pottery clay representing Edom/Muslims. Rome and Caesar, meaning dictator/emperor, still reigns in the form of the Russian Czar/Putin, the German Kaiser/Merkel, and in 1918, the German Kaiser (iron) was linked with the Ottoman Muslims (clay), and crushed to introduce the Zionist back into Judea, by way of the Balfour Agreement. (Daniel 2:34). You are wrong on mixed fronts. The final crushing is represented in Daniel 2:35, which is "near, right at the door "(Matthew 24:33), and which will include the crushing of the iron, and the iron mixed with clay, "all at the same time".

Revelation 1:10 10 On the LORD's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,
�
Matthew 12:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.�

[showme]

[Replying to post 165 by onewithhim]

The mark of the Beast is simply the outward attitude of people toward God's Kingdom. If they have no confidence in God's own government and put all their hopes and their efforts into supporting the governments of men, then they have this "mark of the Beast" on their foreheads and their hands. "666" merely means that the Beast---all the governments of men---is severely lacking in what is good and godly; the number 7 is perfection, so the number 6 emphasized three times means that the human governments are WAY short of perfection.

The "beast with two horns like a lamb" is described as "another beast" (Revelation 13:11 & Daniel 7:24, Constantine, who followed the "beast" of Revelation 13:3-10, Julius Caesar who was "slain" and "healed" as Augustus Caesars. It was Rome who "made war with the saints" (Revelation 13:7), and they "worshiped the dragon" by way of the "daughters" of Babylon (Revelation 17:5), and their false gospel of grace, represented by the cross, which was the sign given to Constantine by his god, Sol Invictus, at the battle of Milvian Bridge, in 312 AD., in which he was to go out and conquer the world under this sign. And the original number of the beast was 616, the number of a man, and it is the number of Constantine's name. What is lacking in godliness, would be the daughters of Babylon, who apparently are full of the abominations of the earth (Revelation 17:5). The "beast that was and is not, and is about to come out of the abyss" is the 5th head of the beast, Julius Caesar, in the form of his demon spirit (Revelation 16:13-16), along with the demon spirit of the "false prophet", Paul, and the demon spirit of the "devil". Those with the mark/sign of the beast with two horns like a lamb, will drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10).