What difference did Jesus make?

[marco]

Some think Jesus was a god while others see him as a prophet sent on a strange heavenly mission to get himself killed. Tied up with this theory is the idea that LOVE is involved; he accepted crucifixion because he loved people. That does not seem to make sense unless one constructs a complex theology about redemption.

Be that as it may, Jesus was with us for a short time period so it is relevant to ask what good or bad has resulted from his celestial mission. Alexander founded a city; the Egyptians left us stone monuments and tablets to say what they believed; Caesar changed the calendar for us, and allowed us to use the terms tsar and Kaiser. What is Christ's legacy? The good have stayed good and the bad are still bad; we have Christian charity and Christian killing. All in all we have what we would statistically expect from a popular preacher - some good, some bad.


What made Jesus special were his reported miracles. But not one single miracle enabled medicine to advance today; nor altered technology. Things have moved on as they did from Alexander and from Caesar and through the Inquisition we learned that love is the same as hate. We observe how one Christian group despises another.

SO


Did Jesus make a difference that would reflect a divine mission?


or


Is he, like Muhammad, a mystic who talked to God but offered nothing much to humanity?

[Elijah John]

Some think Jesus was a god while others see him as a prophet sent on a strange heavenly mission to get himself killed. Tied up with this theory is the idea that LOVE is involved; he accepted crucifixion because he loved people. That does not seem to make sense unless one constructs a complex theology about redemption.

Be that as it may, Jesus was with us for a short time period so it is relevant to ask what good or bad has resulted from his celestial mission. Alexander founded a city; the Egyptians left us stone monuments and tablets to say what they believed; Caesar changed the calendar for us, and allowed us to use the terms tsar and Kaiser. What is Christ's legacy? The good have stayed good and the bad are still bad; we have Christian charity and Christian killing. All in all we have what we would statistically expect from a popular preacher - some good, some bad.


What made Jesus special were his reported miracles. But not one single miracle enabled medicine to advance today; nor altered technology. Things have moved on as they did from Alexander and from Caesar and through the Inquisition we learned that love is the same as hate. We observe how one Christian group despises another.

SO


Did Jesus make a difference that would reflect a divine mission?


or


Is he, like Muhammad, a mystic who talked to God but offered nothing much to humanity?

He brought Good News to the outcast. As enumerated in the Beattitudes. In essence, telling them that God was on their side and thus giving them hope, if not in this life, in the life to come.

He was proclaimed "Lord". According to scholar John Dominic Crossan, the proclaimation is subersive. "Jesus is Lord" means that Ceasar is not. God (ultimately) sides with the meek and lowly, not with the proud and powerful. He is "Lord" to this day, and rules the hearts and minds of many.

But regarding the belief that he conquered sin and death? People still sin, and people still die. So I don't know what is meant by the claim. For himself, perhaps, for the world? The jury's still out

[FWI]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

Did Jesus make a difference that would reflect a divine mission?

The divine mission is the implication of the Kingdom of God upon this planet…This has not occurred to date. However, before the implication can occur a group of individuals must be gathered, trained and tested to assure that the governmental structure of that Kingdom will be prepared and ready, when the time finally does arrive. The writings tell us that many are called, but few are chosen (Matt. 22:11-14). Hence, this governmental structure is limited and only consists of the chosen ones. The reality that there are several different beliefs and beliefs systems surrounding the acceptance of who the Christ is, requires a way to select only those who accept the true and correct system.

This has been the work the Christ has been doing since his resurrection. So, yes the Christ is making a difference at this time, as related to the divine mission.

However, this world is under the "sway" of the adversaries of God, at this time and this could continue for a few more centuries. Yet, we have seen a tremendous advancement in knowledge, especially in the medical field, which I believe is a gift from God and implemented through the Son of God. Hence, the divine mission is the main goal of the Christ, but he is also concerned with the worldly affairs and needs of man.

[Elijah John]

Yet, we have seen a tremendous advancement in knowledge, especially in the medical field, which I believe is a gift from God and implemented through the Son of God.

How so? How did Jesus, the Son of God, have anything to do with medical advances such as we see today?

Did the Son of God inspire or implement Muslim advances in medicine during the Middle Ages too?

[marco]

The divine mission is the implication of the Kingdom of God upon this planet…This has not occurred to date. However, before the implication can occur a group of individuals must be gathered, trained and tested to assure that the governmental structure of that Kingdom will be prepared and ready, when the time finally does arrive. The writings tell us that many are called, but few are chosen (Matt. 22:11-14).

The details of people being organised into a gang of workers doesn't speak highly of heaven. The text you quote has only a remote link with what precedes it.

The reality that there are several different beliefs and beliefs systems surrounding the acceptance of who the Christ is, requires a way to select only those who accept the true and correct system.

Hmmm. And how do the lucky dozen know they are the chosen ones? Are they born with a birthmark or are they just cleverer than the rest of us who are theologically thick? I think they guess they are elite in much the same way as the Pharisee that Christ warned us about.

This has been the work the Christ has been doing since his resurrection. So, yes the Christ is making a difference at this time, as related to the divine mission.

Excuse my bluntness but this is nonsensical. Do we suppose the spirtual Christ, capable of raising the dead, has been toiling for two millennia on this triviality? He sounds like a bricklayer, and not too competent.

Yet, we have seen a tremendous advancement in knowledge, especially in the medical field, which I believe is a gift from God and implemented through the Son of God. Hence, the divine mission is the main goal of the Christ, but he is also concerned with the worldly affairs and needs of man.

Well that is good to know. So the lucky twelve might in fact be those working in medical research rather than the presumptuous ones who are playing with theology.
I wonder if those who developed the atomic bomb have been given credit.

At least this is a refreshingly different theology, even if it makes heaven sound like an outpost of the Hapsburg Empire.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

How so? How did Jesus, the Son of God, have anything to do with medical advances such as we see today?

God gave mankind a brain and can influence the brain. However, He chooses and to whomever He chooses to influence! Beneficial knowledge is one of these ways. The reality that not everyone has the same level of knowledge is quite apparent (even to those who think otherwise) and shows that a higher authority is in play. God, also gave this ability to His Son, the Christ. It is also understood that the brain can receive influences from sources that are not so concerned about the beneficial aspects of life, but lean more to the un-beneficial. Fortunately, there is a "realistic" limit to the un-beneficial influences. Where, the only limit to the beneficial aspects or results of beneficial knowledge is man…

Did the Son of God inspire or implement Muslim advances in medicine during the Middle Ages too?

I wouldn't consider the advances in medicine during the Middle Ages that great compared to the advancement the last 50 years. However, today's knowledge can be passed around the world quite easily, where that wasn't the case in the Middle Ages, for varies reasons. The fact that Muslims do not consider the Christ to be the Son of God, shows your true intent, with this out of context question!

[1213]

...
Did Jesus make a difference that would reflect a divine mission?..

I think that is matter of opinion. For me, his teachings are the greatest legacy of his. And the freedom he offered:

"If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

I think there is no wisdom greater than what he showed. And every good thing I have done, if I have done, is because of Jesus and God, so they can be counted for Jesus.

[marco]

I think there is no wisdom greater than what he showed. And every good thing I have done, if I have done, is because of Jesus and God, so they can be counted for Jesus.

I can understand that, 1213. There is a motto: Let Christ shine through you, and you certainly do that. You graciously accord your way in life to the guidance of Jesus; I think good people exist everywhere in the world, whether they have heard of Jesus or not. If something leads a person to a good life, then that is all one can hope for.


In my own case I look for little diamond glints in other people and sometimes I find them. My students would flatter me and it was good to feel a kind of unity with other people, to see them learn and advance. Heaven is a country whose language I once learned but have since forgotten. Heaven is in the days of sunlight here on earth; it is in other people, as too is hell.


Jesus gave us blessings and curses, but no nice inventions, no cures for cancer or even leprosy. We had to work on our own for that. Is it conceivable that nice people are nice only because Jesus told them to be?

[FWI]

[Replying to post 5 by marco]

At least this is a refreshingly different theology, even if it makes heaven sound like an outpost of the Hapsburg Empire.

Sometimes, the problem isn't with a student, but it's with the teacher...

I wasn't referring to heaven in my comments, I was referring to this earth!

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

The difference he made is whether we live in western civilization or the kingdom of God.at least we have western civilization.