Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?

[historia]

Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity? Why?

[bjs]

Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?

Yes.

Why?

Two possibilities.

One is an article of faith. The fundamental worth of all people is a ground belief for which there is no evidence, but is accepted entirely on faith.

The other is a rejection of this concept. There must be evidence that people have fundamental worth, and there is not. Therefore, people are of equal worth in that we have no fundamental worth. We exist; worth is a human construct which lacks objective truth.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 1 by historia]

I think all people do have equal fundamental worth and dignity. Worth and value seem to me to be relative terms (worthy to whom? good for what?). I think, from God's viewpoint, based on His essential nature, every human has equal worth and dignity. I also think that God has made us all equally valuable for each other (at least, if they are in identical relations to us) and equally worthy of our love and care (whether or not they are in identical relations to us or not).

Your version of "God" did NOT have that viewpoint ...

Deuteronomy 7
1 - When Yahweh your God brings you into the land where you go to possess it, and casts out many nations before you, the Hittite, the Girgashite, the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite, seven nations greater and mightier than you;

2 - and when Yahweh your God delivers them up before you, and you strike them; then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them, nor show mercy to them;

3 - neither shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to his son, nor shall you take his daughter for your son.

4 - For he will turn away your son from following me, that they may serve other gods. So Yahweh's anger would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly.

5 - But you shall deal with them like this. You shall break down their altars, dash their pillars in pieces, and cut down their Asherah poles, and burn their engraved images with fire.

6 - For you are a holy people to Yahweh your God. Yahweh your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples who are on the face of the earth.


The Israelites were "chosen" ...

Other peoples were to be ethnically cleansed.

This is DIRECTLY from the biblical propaganda.

And ...

As we all know ...

There is MUCH more of this from the genocidal "God of Love" in the "scriptures".

I put it to you, that when it comes to the biblical version of "God", people of faith will have the "scriptures" mean what they CHOOSE them to mean ...

And they will have"God" mean what they CHOOSE "God" to mean.

The biblical "scriptures" are FAR from considering "all people as having fundamental worth and dignity".

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 12 by StuartJ]

Before responding to your critique, I would appreciate hearing your answer to the OP (and explanation for it). I'll answer regardless, but I would love for this to be a discussion of both of our positive views (and other peoples' as well), instead of just an analysis of my Christian worldview. If you don't want to, just let me know and I'll give my response.

[Overcomer]

We are created in the image of God. Christ died for everyone, no matter who they are or where they live or what they have done in their lives -- Christ died for all. It's true that not all will accept his gift of salvation. Some will reject his offer of it, saying that they either don't believe he died for them or that he didn't need to die for them or whatever. Look at it this way: You prepare lunch for your two kids. One eats it. The other refuses to eat a bite and pushes the plate away from him. That's what it's like re: Christ's offer of salvation.

What it boils down to is this: We have value because we are made in God's image, created to be in a loving relationship with him and with each other. He valued us enough to send Christ and Christ valued us enough to die so that we would have eternal life with him if we choose. Those of you who do not choose it shouldn't complain about not being part of the kingdom of heaven, given that you all get a chance to do so. You can try to make God the bad guy, but your future is based on your choices so please take responsibility for it.

In what does the atheist base a human being's value? If we evolved randomly, purposelessly, accidentally, what makes us more valuable than a termite, a lobster or an orangutan? You can say that the fact that human beings are able to think reasonably makes us more valuable, but again, if we evolved randomly, purposelessly, accidentally, why would we trust our reason? Or whose reason would we trust and why choose that person's over another?

C.S. Lewis addresses those issues in The Abolition of Man, a book I highly recommend.

[Overcomer]

StuartJ wrote:

The Israelites were "chosen" ...

Other peoples were to be ethnically cleansed.

The biblical "scriptures" are FAR from considering "all people as having fundamental worth and dignity".

In Genesis, we read that everything God created was good -- until he got to humankind, then it was VERY good (Gen. 1:31). God created human beings to be in a loving relationship with him. True love has to be given freely. But if you give someone the opportunity to choose to love you, you also give them the opportunity to choose NOT to love you. And Adam and Eve chose NOT to love God. And so sin entered the world.

God could have given up on humanity, but he loved us too much to do so. He had a plan of salvation that centered on Jesus Christ who would enter the world through the nation of Israel. That is what Israel was chosen to do. However, Israel had a penchant for following the religions of the pagans around them and their religions were nasty. If God lost Israel, he would lose his plan of salvation and, ultimately, all of humanity would be lost. Therefore, he had to protect Israel.

God always gave people a chance to reform on their own. He would warn Israel and the surrounding nations that, if they did not stop their evil ways, he would act against them. He also gave them lots of time to change, often several generations. When they did not do so, he acted.

Again, we're talking about the fact that people have free will. If they make the wrong choices, they pay for it. And given that the right and wrong choices were fully explained to them and what the consequences of the wrong choice would be, it is their own fault that life didn't go well for them. The same is true for anyone who rejects the love and gift of salvation from Jesus Christ. What's remarkable is the fact that Christ agreed to die for ALL humanity, even the most evil of them all, out of love. Those who perish, past, present and future, do so because of their own wrong choices. They have nobody to blame but themselves. They certainly can't blame God for their own arrogance and stupidity.

So yes, God dealt harshly with evil in the nations that threatened his plan of salvation. Look at it this way: Let's say you offer the most heinous leader of ISIS a chance to reform and live peacefully and prosperously, telling him that, if he and his cronies stopped their kidnapping and killing, etc., they could have that good life. You also tell him that, if he and his cohorts continue with their evil ways, you will take action against them. Would you be wrong to step in and stop them when they carry on doing evil against innocent people, shamelessly wreaking havoc wherever they go, thumbing their noses in your face?

That's the way it was for God and the enemies of Israel. He took action against the evil that threatened the nation and his plan of salvation because of his love for humanity which had and still has great value to him. But he will not sit by and let those who do evil flourish. No good God would ever do that.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 1:

Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity? Why?

I believe so yes.

Well about that...

Why? Because we are alive and the source of that life is I believe divine.

Beliefs do not demonstrate facts.

As you believe, I challenge you to support that belief with something other'n some more of 'em.

Humans were created in God's image, according to the bible and anything that reflects, even to a small degree the qualities and attributes of the Creator has, I believe, value.

You state as fact that which you believe has value.

Where have you shown this Creator has created him anything?

Jesus is reported as saying...

I believe.

Reported as.

We ain't got time for no sermon!

Jesus is reported as saying that not even a sparrow dies without the Father (Jehovah) taking note...

It's also 'reported' that pokin' sticks in the ground can change the color and / or pattern of animal offspring.

You got you any checkered sparrows?

...and concluded (speaking of his disciples) "you are worth more than many sparrows". So in the eyes of God humans have value.

I've yet to meet me the first sparrow, that started it an entire holocaust.

This was I believe...

'And which I'm trying to get y'all to believe, by declaring a god I can't show exists thinks him the stuff it is, I can't show he does'.

...demonstrated to the ultimate degree by God sending what was most valuable/precious to Him, namely His son to die for humanity.

Ever notice how some folks can't them demonstrate their God done demonstrated him something?

I've 'bout had it with y'all, so what I'm a-gonna do, I'm gon' send me down a human version of me, and I swear it unto myself, if'n y'all touch you one hair on his nappy head, I'm gonna quit making it so's stick poking in the ground don't work no more.
- Jehovah, probably.

Oddly enough, that might well be why we ain't seen us no checkered sparrows

Instead of giving up on mankind as "a lost cause" Jehovah God (The Creator) took measures to save them from destruction. This was because he valued humans past, present and future; reason enough in my opinion to accept the notion that all humans fundamentally have have equal worth and value.

"I believe".

Conclusions?

Is there a Philosophy & Apologetics section on this site?

Setting aside the subjective nature of the OP - all things have an equal fundamental worth and dignity. One way to fret on that is to consider their actions. Then, well there's some of us humans, after we've growed us up a bit, well how 'bout that.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 12 by StuartJ]

Before responding to your critique, I would appreciate hearing your answer to the OP (and explanation for it). I'll answer regardless, but I would love for this to be a discussion of both of our positive views (and other peoples' as well), instead of just an analysis of my Christian worldview. If you don't want to, just let me know and I'll give my response.

I responded directly to YOUR post ...

Which I suggest I demonstrated to be patently false.

[StuartJ]

Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity? Why?

Tall people have more fundamental worth as basketball players than vertically challenged people.

Intelligent people have more fundamental worth as doctors than intellectually challenged people.

Dignified people have far more dignity than undignified people.

Yes ...

It's a poorly presented topic.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 4 by JehovahsWitness]

I thought it was obvious. You stated that all humans are of "equal worth and value", yet the Watchtower teaches that there will be 144,000 people who will rule with Christ in heaven.

Thank you for clarifying your point.

I don't believe that a person's fundamental worth (which is what the OP was asking about) is related to responsibilities, position or privileges. I personally don't believe the life of President Obama is of more value than my 3 year old niece (or of an unborn foetus form that matter). If you do I can only inform you that neither I nor any of the Jehovah's Witnesses I have met share your value system.






JW


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[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

This was because he valued humans past, present and future; reason enough in my opinion to accept the notion that all humans fundamentally have have equal worth and value.

Cough, the 144,000, cough.

While rummaging for images of how the Christians-only (JWs-only ...?) world will look after Jesus and the armies of angels have exterminated all those who chose the wrong - or no - faith community ...

I found ...



Which I considered pertinent to this topic.

144,000 will have more worth and dignity ...

Others will learn to play the accordion ...

And have plenty of time to learn what to do with apostrophes ...



http://whitesimgq.pw/Paradise-restored- ... ion-t.html