A question for Christian apologists

[rikuoamero]

I'm wondering - do your beliefs have a fail state? Can they be falsified? Can something happen where, if it happens, you will then say "My beliefs were in error"?

Here's an example of what I mean. The positive belief "Prayers are answered by God" would have as its affirmation the act of prayers actually being answered by what is presumed to be God.
I currently have the negative belief "Prayers are not answered by God". This belief of mine has, as its affirmation, the act (or should I say non-act?) of prayers of mine and others going unanswered. I get the exact same result as if I were talking to plants or a brick wall.
However, my negative belief could be falsified, by prayers being answered, of it being shown that they are being answered by what is presumed to be God. I once had the positive belief "Prayers are answered by God", but decades of presumed silence on God's part when I prayed led me to a different conclusion and eventually to the negative belief I now have. My once positive belief had a fail state, it was falsifiable.

What about you guys? Do your Christian beliefs have fail states?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 1 by rikuoamero]

If the resurrection could be proven to not have happened, that would do it. I think that would be difficult. I think if the various philosophical arguments for theism were proven unsound. And then the alternative explanations to my religious experiences would need to be shown to be true or, at least, more plausible than having God as the source. That's just a general rattling off, though.

[Overcomer]

I've been a Christian for decades. That means I have been in a relationship with the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit for a long time. The more I get to know God, the more I love and trust him. I couldn't stop believing he exists any more than I could stop believing that my sister exists.

I have seen countless prayers answered. Sometimes God has surprised me by answering them in unexpected ways. Other times, it has taken years to see the answer come -- often with regard to relationships that need to be mended, forgiveness that needs to be given, and changes in a person who has been going down the wrong path. Sometimes God has given me a flat out no and I have been grateful because, looking back, I realize what I wanted would have turned out badly and he spared me from it.

It's a mistake for someone to think that because her prayer has not been answered exactly the way she wanted God to answer it or because the answer hasn't come quickly or she couldn't see an answer at all that God was either ignoring her or didn't even exist. Bear in mind that God will not say yes to anything that would be to our detriment or that does not line up with his will.

Also, if someone has no faith that God will answer or if he is in rebellion against God and living in flagrant disobedience to him or if he has a heart that is insincere or arrogant and full of animosity, God has no onus to respond to that person.

There is one thing I have learned. God is never the problem. We are. So if we aren't happy with God and what he's doing or not doing in our lives, we need to search our own hearts and quit blaming him. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. There have been times when I have been my own worst enemy when it comes to my relationship with the Lord, creating road blocks between us of my own making. But he has stuck with me through thick and thin. As it says in Proverbs 18:24, there is someone who sticks closer than a brother -- and the Hebrew word translated as "sticks" means being welded to someone or something. In this day and age, we would say he is "Crazy-glued" to us.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 1 by rikuoamero]

I am not sure that I understand your standard of falsification. If someone prays, “God, please let me survive the surgery,� and then that person survives the surgery, does that falsify your negative belief that “Prayers are not answered by God�?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 4 by bjs]

I am not sure that I understand your standard of falsification. If someone prays, “God, please let me survive the surgery,� and then that person survives the surgery, does that falsify your negative belief that “Prayers are not answered by God�?

You would need to show that the reason that person survived the surgery was because of a prayer being answered by God. There is such a thing as coincidence, or some aspect of biology or medicine we simply do not understand yet.

[William]

[Replying to post 5 by rikuoamero]

You would need to show that the reason that person survived the surgery was because of a prayer being answered by God. There is such a thing as coincidence, or some aspect of biology or medicine we simply do not understand yet.

I think this is the basic problem. The shoe also fits the other foot. If one prays for something and this happens, then such strengthens the persons underlying beliefs. The more prayer is answered, the more the underlying belief is strengthened.

One can assume in all cases 'coincidence' is the explanation, but what appears as coincidence to the one who does not believe there are subtle - largely invisible - displays of intelligent power involved, are seen to be something other than coincidence to those who do believe there are subtle invisible displays of intelligent power involved.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 4 by bjs]

I am not sure that I understand your standard of falsification. If someone prays, “God, please let me survive the surgery,� and then that person survives the surgery, does that falsify your negative belief that “Prayers are not answered by God�?

You would need to show that the reason that person survived the surgery was because of a prayer being answered by God. There is such a thing as coincidence, or some aspect of biology or medicine we simply do not understand yet.

This seems more like confirmation bias than falsification. There is no way to demonstrate unequivocally that someone survived a surgery by God answering a prayer or not.

By way of comparison, a theist could say, “When what I prayed for happens, that is God answering my prayer. When it doesn’t happen, then it just wasn’t in God’s will.�

So in this area at least no matter what happens the theists and non-theist can both say, “When things turn out the way that I expect them to, then it shows that what I believe is correct. When things do not turn out the way I expect then that does not show that what I believe (or don’t believe) is incorrect.�

In this area, neither theists’ nor atheists’ belief are genuinely falsifiable.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 5 by rikuoamero]

You would need to show that the reason that person survived the surgery was because of a prayer being answered by God.

On the issue of answered prayers, it always helps to pray for something which could naturally happen without any divine intervention. If you do that enough you can then say that God answered many of your prayers. For those things that don't get a favorable response you then retroactively find justification for the non-event. Win-win. The truth is, however, that there is no need for any God in the equation.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 3 by Overcomer]

I've been a Christian for decades. That means I have been in a relationship with the Lord and filled with the Holy Spirit for a long time.

Not necessarily. People who have been Christians for decades but subsequently lost their faith have been labeled as never having been a true Christian nor had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It seems that during those decades their Christianity was never in question, but when it's gone the rationalisations begin. Have to shore up the faith somehow.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 2 by The Tanager]

If the resurrection could be proven to not have happened, that would do it.

Ok...how would one go about doing that, might I ask?