Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Argue for and against Christianity

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StuartJ
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Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #1

Post by StuartJ »

Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

It's a simple, straightforward question aimed at the very foundation of Christianity.

Please pay us the courtesy of answering directly this time.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.

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Post #21

Post by StuartJ »

[Replying to post 19 by Don McIntosh]

Please start a new topic.

I'll see you there.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #22

Post by Realworldjack »

[Replying to post 20 by StuartJ]

The topic is the same which is, "can you demonstrate what it is you claim to believe about the virgin birth?" Was it real, or was it false, and how can you demonstrate one way or the other?

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #23

Post by StuartJ »

Realworldjack wrote: [Replying to post 20 by StuartJ]

The topic is the same which is, "can you demonstrate what it is you claim to believe about the virgin birth?" Was it real, or was it false, and how can you demonstrate one way or the other?
Good Lord no, of course I can't demonstrate it either way ...

Especially if the magical thing DIDN'T happen ...

I CERTAINLY couldn't demonstrate ANYTHING about it ...

Because there is nothing to demonstrate anything about.

But if Christians claim Jesus was sired by the mythological Yahweh ...

They are claiming that THAT magic thing DID happen.

But you've admitted that you can't demonstrate that it DID happen.

Which leaves the possibility WIDE open that it's just make-believe put about charlatans.

Which is sufficient reason for ME to suspect that Christianity is just a game of Pretend ...

And an extortion racket that provides a soft living for those who can sell it convincingly/brainwash the ever-credulous folk in the obedient flock ...

And keep my mind and my money free ...

And provide public information so others can make up their own minds about whether to have themselves put into a state of the mind that accepts the proposition that the possibly fictional Jesus character was sired by Yahweh.

I rather hope they insist in good, firm, independently verifiable evidence before falling on their knees and admitting that they are a worthless sinner who needs their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus.

And then pretend to drink the blood of Jesus.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #24

Post by Realworldjack »

StuartJ wrote:
Realworldjack wrote: [Replying to post 20 by StuartJ]

The topic is the same which is, "can you demonstrate what it is you claim to believe about the virgin birth?" Was it real, or was it false, and how can you demonstrate one way or the other?
Good Lord no, of course I can't demonstrate it either way ...

Especially if the magical thing DIDN'T happen ...

I CERTAINLY couldn't demonstrate ANYTHING about it ...

Because there is nothing to demonstrate anything about.

But if Christians claim Jesus was sired by the mythological Yahweh ...

They are claiming that THAT magic thing DID happen.

But you've admitted that you can't demonstrate that it DID happen.

Which leaves the possibility WIDE open that it's just make-believe put about charlatans.

Which is sufficient reason for ME to suspect that Christianity is just a game of Pretend ...

And an extortion racket that provides a soft living for those who can sell it convincingly/brainwash the ever-credulous folk in the obedient flock ...

And keep my mind and my money free ...

And provide public information so others can make up their own minds about whether to have themselves put into a state of the mind that accepts the proposition that the possibly fictional Jesus character was sired by Yahweh.

I rather hope they insist in good, firm, independently verifiable evidence before falling on their knees and admitting that they are a worthless sinner who needs their sins washed away by the blood of Jesus.

And then pretend to drink the blood of Jesus.


It is just as I thought then. In other words you throw out a challenge, as if it somehow proves a point, (which it does not) and yet you cannot meet the same challenge and yet your failure to do so, somehow is not a point.

Again, the facts are, we have the letters contained in the Bible, These letters make certain claims, and they were addressed to others at the time, with no idea that the letters they were writing would be contained later in a book called the Bible, which they could not have possibly known anything about.

There must be an explanation for these letters, and their content. After examining these letters, and their content, comparing them to each other, and analyzing all that would have to be involved for all these things to be false, I have come to the conclusion that there is very good, and solid reasons the believe these accounts, and can also supply these reasons, but I can, and have readily admitted I cannot demonstrate that they would indeed be true.

On the other hand, there are those who I can only assume discount these event recorded, because they very rarely if ever give any sort of reason, or facts to back up their rejection of this information, but rather mistakenly are under the assumption that they do not have any sort of burden to prove their case, and they attempt to hide behind this assumption.

However, this is not the case in the least. The fact of the matter is, the only ones who own the burden are those who claim these things recorded are in fact true, or those who make the claim they are indeed false.

I am in neither of these camps, which means all I have to do is to supply the reasons, along with the evidence, of how I have come to my conclusions.

So then, if it is your position is, these things cannot possibly be true, then you possess the burden to demonstrate (prove) your case. However, if your position is, the things recorded could possibly be false, but you can in no way demonstrate your position, then you, and I are in the same boat, and it really is no point at all to point out the fact that the other side cannot, prove, or demonstrate their position, if you acknowledge that you could not possibly demonstrate yours. What in the world would be the point?

It is not enough to simply point out that another's position could possibly be false. In other words, you can demonstrate, (prove) the other's position is false, or you acknowledge that you both are in the same position, which means all either can do is to supply the reasons, along with the evidence to back your case, and simply pointing out the other side cannot demonstrate their case is sort of like two kids on the playground arguing over whose dad, can beat the other dad up. It's futile.

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #25

Post by StuartJ »

[Replying to post 24 by Realworldjack]
It is not enough to simply point out that another's position could possibly be false.
It SHOULD be enough to make one very cautious about entering a personality cult that tells you its Divine Leader was sired by "God" on a human virgin and wants 10% of your pay.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #26

Post by polonius »

StuartJ wrote: Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

It's a simple, straightforward question aimed at the very foundation of Christianity.

Please pay us the courtesy of answering directly this time.


Many important humans in Jesus day were said to be the product of a virgin birth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births#Isaac
Immanuel[edit]

According to Isaiah 7:14, around 735 BC King Ahaz of Judah received a message from the prophet Isaiah during the Syro-Ephraimite War with Aram (Syria) and Israel, "Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel."[17]

This is generally taken by Judaic commentators to be a reference to the non-miraculous birth of Hezekiah or another contemporary child, as indicated in Isaiah's following indication of the timing.

The Greek Septuagint and some later Christian translations, following the application of Isaiah 7 in Matthew 1, use the word "virgin". The Hebrew word alma actually translates as a young woman of childbearing age who had not yet given birth and who might or might not be a virgin, whereas the Hebrew betulah, used elsewhere in Isaiah, is the word that means "virgin."

The Second Book of Enoch contains a section, called Exaltation of Melchizedek, which says that Melchizedek was born of a virgin, Sofonim (or Sopanima), the wife of Nir, a brother of Noah.

Alexander, the Ptolemies, and the Caesars were said by some scholars to have been "virgin-born." Alexander the Great, " journeyed to the Oasis of Amon in order that he might be recognized as the god’s son and thus become a legitimate and recognized king of Egypt. .... It is recorded that "Alexander the Great and Augustus are deemed to have been conceived of a serpent god, and they claimed between them Phoebus and Jupiter as their progenitors."[29]

So if you believe the stories, Jesus was only one product of many virgin births. Of course, the story was added to two gospels which were originally written about 80 years after the purported fact. But not in the other two gospels or the writings of Paul.

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #27

Post by 1213 »

StuartJ wrote: Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?
For the people who were with Jesus, the acts and words of Jesus were the proof that he is really son of God. I believe the testimony of the witnesses, because I don’t think people would have made it up without God. Bible teachings shows wisdom, knowledge, truth and love that I don’t think people would show without God.

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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #28

Post by polonius »

1213 wrote:
StuartJ wrote: Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?
For the people who were with Jesus, the acts and words of Jesus were the proof that he is really son of God. I believe the testimony of the witnesses, because I don’t think people would have made it up without God. Bible teachings shows wisdom, knowledge, truth and love that I don’t think people would show without God.
RESPONSE:

What "witnesses" left any writings? Or do you mean storytellers?

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Post #29

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 9 by ElCodeMonkey]
It's like "Ha, Atheists, can you even PROVE that Julius was the father of Augustus? Just a straight yes or no, come on." And we'd scratch our heads wondering why they're asking such a question and what it has to do with our lack of faith.
From the Wikipedia page on Augustus
"His mother, Atia, was the niece of Julius Caesar....Octavius [Augustus] was studying and undergoing military training in Apollonia, Illyria, when Julius Caesar was killed on the Ides of March (15 March) 44 BC....Caesar had no living legitimate children under Roman law,[nb 3] and so had adopted Octavius, his grand-nephew, making him his primary heir."
Has anyone ever claimed that Julius was the biological father of Octavius/Augustus?
Last edited by rikuoamero on Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

Post #30

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 11 by Realworldjack]
What I can demonstrate is, this was reported to have occured.

Now the question to you would be, can you demonstrate that this report would be false, without "quoting propaganda or repeating your beliefs" along with not telling us what would be scientifically impossible, since we all know it would be scientifically impossible?

If you insist on sharing with us what would be scientifically impossible, can you demonstrate that science can, and does have all the answers, and that if science tells us that it is scientifically impossible, that this would be the same as being impossible?
My retort to you is to ask why you believe it anyway? Why believe something that you acknowledge is scientifically impossible, but is credible to you solely (among other possible reasons?) because it was reported.
Lots of things are reported. Lots of things are talked about. Lots of things get claimed, lots of things that are reported are not possible scientifically. Do you demand that someone prove Loch Ness Monster false? That someone prove that Zuckerberg isn't a lizard person, etc, before you'll believe these claims are false?
Just to be clear, no-one has proven to me that Zuckerberg is not a lizard person, and yet I don't believe that he is one. Can you explain why?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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