Elijah John wrote:
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Replying to post 68 by shnarkle]
You don't have to convince me that abortion is wrong. I agree, it is. And the fetus is a human being, not property. Likewise, neither is the slave "property". They were human beings, made in God's image.
Glad you agree, but that's beside the point. The point is that one can only work within the boundaries set by the societies God's people found themselves living with. A similar law could be established today which would be identical to the principle utilized with slavery, e.g. All pregnancies may be purchased at a federally regulated and set price which shall supersede the need for late term abortions. This would effectively eliminate late term abortions. A repeal of Doe vs. Bolen would have the same effect returning the status of the unborn to that of a person who the government has an invested interest in protecting. Either way, it is working within the boundaries of the laws of a country or society to improve the situation.
Under the laws of the surrounding people's, a slave could be beaten to death without any repercussions whatsoever. There are some exceptions, but they are silly in comparison, e.g. Plato's Euthyphro.
So where is the consistency in your argument in bringing up the this example?
Sorry, I answered this before I read your whole post. See above.
But this is what advocates of Bible perfection have to do. They have to attempt to defend the indefensible, passages like Exodus 21.20-21
Frankly, I see no reason to think this is all that difficult to defend. If I purchase a slave from the surrounding population, under the Mosaic law, that slave now has rights he never could have dreamed of otherwise. He is protected from excessive abuse, but he is also required to fulfill his duties, and barring unwarranted or impossible requests, he must fulfill them. It is no different than requesting a thief be sent to prison, and do his time without incident. Those who refuse to cooperate need discipline, no? I suppose they could be sedated in order to keep them from destroying public property or hurting themselves or anyone else, but you don't seriously think we should just let convicted felons fun wild do you? It's the same principle with slavery.
Or admit that the Bible is not infallible.
The bible may be fallible, but it certainly isn't in this case.
It is my position that this passage alone, (and there are many, many others) is evidence that the Bible is not perfect, nor is it the verbatim "Word of God".
I don't have dog in that fight. I'm simply pointing out that when dealing with people who are necessasrily depraved, one will have to resort to corporal punishment. It's that simple and it's been the case throughout history. If they're hopelessly depraved, they're put to sleep for their own good, and the good of society as a whole.
It is no secret that our own justice system is based upon these principles found in the Mosaic law.
And by the way, employers paying their employees unfairly low wages, sub-subsistence, is one of those sins that "cries out to heaven" according to the RCC.
Who determines what is unfair or low wages? The person being paid? When there are a dozen others who have no problem being paid those same wages, what do you do then?
So pointing to employers who exploit their employees in order for you to justify some forms of slavery doesn't work either.
I just made it work, prove me wrong. Hey, we'd all like to be paid a grand an hour, but it isn't going to happen for everyone. It may very well not be fair, but that's just tough. Some aren't worth it, and more importantly, you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they have to do with their money, or how they need to spend it. If i want to pay one guy a grand an hour and another guy ten dollars an hour, and they agree to it, then it's none of your business. If the guy getting a grand an hour decides he can't live on that, then he can go look for a better job from someon who will pay him that much.
They are both wrong.
So you keep asserting. Perhaps you can refute what I've already posted.
