Would you believe? (question for nonbelievers)

[Tart]

If the Christian claim is true, and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God? Would you believe God is real? If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

[StuartJ]

If the Christian claim is true, and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God? Would you believe God is real? If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

Yes to the first bit.

No to the second bit.

Gotta see where this is going ....

Could be a bit of a trap I've leapt into ...!?

(I'll keep the "you've offended me" card in reserve.)

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

I'd like to know just what the phrase 'give you the holy spirit as an inner witness' even means. Right now they're just a conglomeration of words put together.

UPDATE - To clarify, I literally do not know what the phrase means. Is it a voice in my mind telling me the Christian God is real? If it's that, why should I trust it? Why wouldn't I (in that situation at least) consider the possibility of mental illness? I've hallucinated before (thankfully only extremely rarely). If it's not a voice, then what is it? What does it mean?

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to post 3 by rikuoamero]

I've been told that despite your sincerity and effort, if God decides to withhold the Spirit, you'll be unable to find Him. I gotta say I've never understood that part. Not JUST that part, but definitely also that part.

[Divine Insight]

If the Christian claim is true, and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God? Would you believe God is real?

I'm 69 years old. I would say that God is at least 50 years belated if that's what God wanted to do.

If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

I already know this is false. I've have far more than the smallest seed of Faith in God and it didn't lead me anywhere. In fact, at the time I was sincerely trying to understand the "Word of God" in terms of the Bible specially for the purpose of being God's servant to teach others what God expected from them, etc.

None of that worked.

In fact, not only has it not worked for me, but it clearly hasn't worked for any sincere Christian, or Abrahamic theist of any faith. They clearly all disagree on what the Bible has to say. In fact, recognizing that preaches themselves were confused and clearly could not understand the Bible was a large part of what drove me to hope to understand it. It was my hope that I could clear up their questions.

What did I find? I found that the Bible is an obvious fabrication of extremely self-contradictory stories that could not possibly be true.

~~~~~~

Finally, we can't ignore the following TRUTH.

My desire has always been extremely sincere in terms of helping humans live in the most peaceful and harmonious ways. At no point in my life was I concerned with my own success in life. I never sought after wealth, fame, or any personal selfish interest. In fact, I was so disinterested in personal gain that I actually ended up not doing myself any favors. I used to say that I don't even care to have any money. Today I would very much appreciate having more than I do. Not for any luxury items, but simply just to insure that I can continue to "get by". Mere survival has been my main concern in life.

So it's not like I rejected God because I was interested in some sort of personal gain, or to do things that would be considered to be "sins". As far as I can see I've lived as righteous of a life as any human has ever lived. Sure, I've made unintentional bad mistakes, just like everyone. But to suggest that I am somehow an "evil" person undeserving of God's attention or revelation, is clearly nonsense.

There would be no justification for a decent just God to have ignored my attempt to understand his purpose. That's just not even remotely an option.

Hebrew mythology (and Christian Theology) is clearly false. Period. There can be no other rational explanation.

These suggestions you have made have simply already been proven to be false claims made by this obviously false religion. Let there be no doubt about that.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 4 by Inigo Montoya]

I've been told that despite your sincerity and effort, if God decides to withhold the Spirit, you'll be unable to find Him. I gotta say I've never understood that part. Not JUST that part, but definitely also that part.

The bible is clear that God is not a respecter of individuals and shows no partiality (Acts 10:34-35). God wants "all" peoples to repent (2Peter 3:9 and 1Timothy 2:4). So, for the most part, there is "no lottery" for those who will be enlightened. The truth is that most humans are "called" at some point in their life, even the atheists and agnostics (where, most have a religious background). However, it is what happens after this calling, which determines if the individual will receive "additional help" from God (through the Christ) and stay the course.

There is a parable in Matthew 13, which lays out the premise. Here, it is shown the different paths that individuals decide to go. Yet, an important point is clear and needs to be brought-out! The disciples of the Christ did not have the Spirit of God upon them at this point…This did not occur until Pentecost, which was after the Christ was taken up into the heavens. So, having the Spirit "upon" oneself (not "in" the person) is only determined on how we react to the calling. This could take years, decades and possibly a life time.

But, true sincerity and correct effort will not go unnoticed…Hence, those who claim otherwise are mistaken…

[Artie]

If the Christian claim is true, and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God? Would you believe God is real? If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

No. Even if I heard the voice of God in my head telling me to go kill my family or neighbors, like many do, I wouldn't believe in God. I would go and have myself checked for some physical or mental illness.

[benchwarmer]

If the Christian claim is true,

Which claim?

and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God?

This is gobbledy gook for "if you started thinking due to voices in your head".

Would you believe God is real?

Which god? Christians themselves can't even agree on the entire definition of their god.

If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

Your question boils down to "If you started hearing a voice in your head, would you start believing one of the Christian versions of a god concept?".

My answer is NO.

Let's reword your question slightly and see if YOU would answer yes:

If the Leprechaunian claim is true, and Queen Sophia of the Leprechauns was able to give you the Golden Soul as an inner witness to you of Queen Sophia. Would you believe Queen Sophia is real? If the Leprechaunian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to Queen Sophia, would you believe Queen Sophia is real?

Your entire question is designed such that you won't ever need to provide any verifiable evidence of your claims. A voice in your head (which is likely just you thinking) says that something is real. That seems to be good enough for you. Thankfully, many of us prefer more than your inner thoughts before we go off doing whatever your god concept thinks we should be doing.

Also, have you considered the voice in your head might be Satan or some other evil character from your Bible stories? How would you verify which is which if all you are doing is listening to voices in your head? Perhaps you are being led astray because you refuse to take the effort to find verifiable evidence of what these voices are saying.

What's your first reaction to a tragedy when the perpetrator says "a voice in my head told me to do it". Hallelujah?!

[Tcg]

If the Christian claim is true, and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God? Would you believe God is real?

I have no idea. Until this happens, how could I know?

If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

That "smallest seed of Faith" would include the belief that God is real. This is the same as asking, "If you believe God is real, would you believe God is real?". The answer of course is, "yes".

[Tired of the Nonsense]

If the Christian claim is true, and God was able to give you the Holy Spirit as an inner witness to you of God? Would you believe God is real? If the Christian claim is real, that the smallest seed of Faith can lead you to God, would you believe God is real?

If God is real then God has the ability to make His presence known to me in a way that is undeniable. And it is true that there are many who claim that God HAS made His presence known to them. I am 70 years old however, and God has NEVER made His presence known to me. God seems to be very biased in whom He decides to make His presence known.

Jimmy Swaggart once publicly thanked God for not making him smart. God DOES appear to have a distinct preference for abject ignorance. A certain unhinged quality seems to come in handy as well.