The "general principles of Christianity" on July 4

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John Human
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The "general principles of Christianity" on July 4

Post #1

Post by John Human »

John Adams famously wrote, in an 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson, that the American Founders achieved independence on the foundation of the "general principles of Christianity" and "the general principles of English liberty." See https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 06-02-0208

This implies that the "general principles of Christianity" are present in a correct reading of the Declaration of Independence. Is that the case? What were these "general principles of Christianity" in the mind of John Adams, and how closely do they approximate what is commonly understood as Christianity today? (In other words, to what extent can the Declaration of Independence be properly considered a "Christian" document?)
"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar

"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI

"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0

"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]

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Re: The "general principles of Christianity" on Ju

Post #2

Post by Elijah John »

John Human wrote: John Adams famously wrote, in an 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson, that the American Founders achieved independence on the foundation of the "general principles of Christianity" and "the general principles of English liberty." See https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 06-02-0208

This implies that the "general principles of Christianity" are present in a correct reading of the Declaration of Independence. Is that the case? What were these "general principles of Christianity" in the mind of John Adams, and how closely do they approximate what is commonly understood as Christianity today? (In other words, to what extent can the Declaration of Independence be properly considered a "Christian" document?)
Adams was a Unitarian, and Jefferson was a skeptical Episcopalian. Neither believed in the Divnity of Christ, and Jefferson considered Paul a corruptor of Jesus message.

The wording of the Declaration is more Deistic than it is Trinitarian or even Biblical. It speaks of the "laws of nature and nature's God", not the "laws of the Bible and the Bible's God.

And at Franklin's suggestion, the wording was chaned from "we hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable" to "we hold these truths to be self-evident". The final form was far more Deistic than Christian.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: The "general principles of Christianity" on Ju

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by John Human]

Not all Christians are American and as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I don't participate in any political celebrations.

Still humans have always yearned to live in freedom, so I can see why The Declaration of Independence touches many nominal Christians.

JW
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Re: The "general principles of Christianity" on Ju

Post #4

Post by showme »

John Human wrote: John Adams famously wrote, in an 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson, that the American Founders achieved independence on the foundation of the "general principles of Christianity" and "the general principles of English liberty." See https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 06-02-0208

This implies that the "general principles of Christianity" are present in a correct reading of the Declaration of Independence. Is that the case? What were these "general principles of Christianity" in the mind of John Adams, and how closely do they approximate what is commonly understood as Christianity today? (In other words, to what extent can the Declaration of Independence be properly considered a "Christian" document?)
Your "English liberty" is probably a reference to English common law, which is generally based on the 10 Commandments. Followers of Paul, think they have been released from this Law (Romans 7:6), and the country now suffers for that, as the religious progressives have become more righteous than God in their own minds, and make their own laws to match their twisted hearts and minds. While at the same time, God laughs at the wicked (Psalm 37:13), for their day is coming.

Psalms 37:…12The wicked scheme against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them, 13but the Lord laughs, seeing that their day is coming.

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Post #5

Post by John Human »

Hi JehovahsWitness, please rest assured that my point isn't about political celebration, but rather about what I see as the lost moral underpinning of the Declaration of Independence. I wanted to name this thread "The General Principles of Christianity and the Declaration of Independence," but that was too long for the forum software to accept.

@showme, if I'm not mistaken, the "general principles of English liberty," according to John Adams, were the well-known trinity of "life, liberty and pproperty," going back to Magna Carta. Regarding the common law, it was based solidly on the Ciceronian natural law tradition, which was indeed seen as congruent with the Ten Commandments.
"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar

"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI

"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0

"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]

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Post #6

Post by John Human »

My thoughts on the "general principles of Christianity" in relation to the Declaration of Independence are informed by the following suppositions:

1. John Adams can be thought of as the "managing editor," of the Declaration of Independence, looking over the shoulder of young Thomas Jefferson as Jefferson drafted the Declaration. Adams was "Mr. Independence," the "colossus" for independence (to use Jefferson's word) in the congressional debates leading up to the Declaration. Furthermore, John Adams had a primary role in drafting the original independence resolution of May 10 and 15, 1776, which precipitated the closing of royal courts throughout the colonies, as well as precipitating a coup d'etat against the royalist proprietary government of Pennsylvania. In this original May independence resolution, Adams provided (and Congress approved) a definition of HAPPINESS.

2. Benjamin Franklin can be thought of as the "editor-in-chief" of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin was the oldest delegate in the Continental Congress, he was the only one among the delegates who was internationally famous, and he had been involved in overseeing the teaching of moral philosophy in Philadelphia: he had decided views on the subject.

Both Franklin and Adams were on the five-man committee (together with Jefferson) that was charged with drafting the Declaration of Independence. Both Adams and Franklin (and no one else) made edits in Jefferson's original draft. (Franklin was bedridden at the time with the gout, and Jefferson visited him at his home as part of the drafting process.)

3. Thomas Jefferson, when he wrote the Declaration of Independence, was one of the youngest members of the Continental Congress, which reinforces the supposition that Jefferson's own views were not important; he was simply expressing the collective opinion of the members of Congress. (Jefferson's use of the phrase "harmonizing sentiments" when he described his choice of words in the Declaration shows that there were differences among the congressional delegates, a point worth discussing on its own.)

4. If John Adams was correct in stating that independence was founded on the "general principles of Christianity," then whatever Adams meant by the general principles of Christianity can be found in the thought of both Adams and Franklin. I'll turn to that thought in a later post.
"Love is a force in the universe." -- Interstellar

"God don't let me lose my nerve" -- "Put Your Lights On"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCBS5EtszYI

"Who shall save the human race?"
-- "Wild Goose Chase" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L45toPpEv0

"A piece is gonna fall on you..."
-- "All You Zombies" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63O_cAclG3A[/i]

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Post #7

Post by showme »

[Replying to post 4 by John Human]
"It is with your bitter enemy that you make peace." --Yitzhak Rabin
How did that work out for poor Yitzhak? Did he get his peace? Or did he get a bullet from his friend? There is a time for peace and a time for war. (Ecclesiastes 3:8)

a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

The time for war is when the nations gather against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:1-3) & (Joel 3:2 & 12).

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Re: The "general principles of Christianity" on Ju

Post #8

Post by showme »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by John Human]

Not all Christians are American and as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I don't participate in any political celebrations.

Still humans have always yearned to live in freedom, so I can see why The Declaration of Independence touches many nominal Christians.

JW
That is too bad, for the federal holiday of Thanksgiving, such as giving thanks to God, is a nice time off work to get to see the grand kids. As for living in freedom, apparently the followers of JW church, follow their men appointed leaders, and apparently are no more righteous than their Mormon brothers, who also seem to think they have the keys of the kingdom. There is nothing more revolting than to see one righteous sect compete against another righteous sect, other than to have a self declared righteous sect in the first place. Bah Humbug

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Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

John Human wrote: Hi JehovahsWitness, please rest assured that my point isn't about political celebration, but rather about what I see as the lost moral underpinning of the Declaration of Independence. I wanted to name this thread "The General Principles of Christianity and the Declaration of Independence," but that was too long for the forum software to accept.
Well as a Christian I look to God's kingdom for true liberation. Jesus said his kingdom is no part of his world, so ultimately the Christian message is I think divorced from any political system.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #10

Post by showme »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
John Human wrote: Hi JehovahsWitness, please rest assured that my point isn't about political celebration, but rather about what I see as the lost moral underpinning of the Declaration of Independence. I wanted to name this thread "The General Principles of Christianity and the Declaration of Independence," but that was too long for the forum software to accept.
Well as a Christian I look to God's kingdom for true liberation. Jesus said his kingdom is no part of his world, so ultimately the Christian message is I think divorced from any political system.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
Yeshua's kingdom of heaven, at hand, is spirit and power, is not of this world, but those of the kingdom have access to the power and spirit. The coming kingdom of God will "crush" the nations of Daniel 2:44-45 and create a world kingdom, in which the "Word of God" will rule the nations/Gentiles, with a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:15). It is the "saints" who will come to help"crush" the nations of the beast (Revelation 19:14), and it will be the angels of Matthew 13:39 who will reap the tares, and the church of the tares, which is built on the foundation of the false, lawless prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd", "stumble block to me" Peter. (Zechariah 11:7-17) Heaven apparently will not help those with the mark of the beast, for they will drink from the cup of God's wrath (Revelation 14:10). The "beast with two horns like a lamb" is Constantine, and his two lamblike horns, are Peter and Paul, in which the Roman church used both to deceive those "who dwell on the earth", whether they vote or have no legal right to vote.

If you are not free from sin now, don't expect a good time in the old town during the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32)

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