Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

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Are mormons christian?

Yes
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No
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37%
 
Total votes: 51

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Kuan
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Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #1

Post by Kuan »

So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!

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Post #2

Post by McCulloch »

I answered Christian. Here is the reason, while the topic of religious taxonomy has many traps, one can divide most of the religions in the world into 4 categories and a few subcategories in each:
  1. Abrahamic religions
    • Judaism
    • Christianity
    • Islam
    • Bahá'í
  2. Indian religions
    • Hinduism
    • Jainism
    • Buddhism
    • Sikhism
  3. East Asian religions
    • Taoism
    • Confucianism
  4. Others
Clearly Mormonism is Abrahamic and it is not Jewish, Muslim or Bahá'í. The centrality of Jesus of Nazareth and their acceptance of the Christian Bible argue against their being a separate distinct group within the Abrahamic designation.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

TheFoolForHimAboveAll
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Post #3

Post by TheFoolForHimAboveAll »

Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

Mormons have preferred to be called "saints"; however, in the recent years the LDS church has spent millions in an intense "PR" campaign aimed at moving the church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in proselytizing the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present itself as Christian and is trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult.

The answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians," is simple. They are not Christians for several reasons, and their unbiblical doctrines show them to be a "Christian" cult.

The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word "christianos," and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16). The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For almost two thousand years it has never had a reference to anyone other that the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament.


Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.

The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they, too, shall one day become gods. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of "their" world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of "eternal progression."

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:

"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."

Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":

"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."

The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.

Note the clear teaching of the Bible as to who the real God is:

Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

Psalms 102:26-27, "They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end."

Isaiah 43:10-11, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

Isaiah 45:21-22, "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."

Jeremiah 23:24, "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."

Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

John 1:16-18, "And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Romans 1:22, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

1 Timothy 1:17, "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Timothy 6:16, "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Clearly, Mormonism's god is not the God of Christianity who is the God revealed to us in the Bible. The Mormon god is a god formed from the imaginations of Joseph Smith, and in truth is a false, non-existent god or idol.

Second: The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.

The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, and according to LDS teaching, he married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not, to the LDS church, "God incarnate" as the Bible plainly states. Clearly, the Mormon god and Jesus are not the true.

God and Jesus of the Bible

Orson Hyde, the Mormon Apostle said, "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married in the marriage of Cana of Galilee" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 80).

Brigham Young, said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Child Jesus ... He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is His father? He is the first of the human family" (Journal of Discourses, pages 50-51).

Compare this with the Word of God, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35).

Mormons teach that Jesus Christ suffered for sin in the Garden of Gethsemane when He sweat "as it were" great drops of blood. Mormons totally avoid the Biblical teaching of Christ's atonement for sin which was accomplished on the Cross.

Note the following quote from, "What Mormons Think of Christ" (LDS publication, pages 32-34):

"Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much is believed and taught on this subject, however, it is utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation."

It goes further to say that salvation is "conditional on faith, and repentance, and baptism and keeping the commands of God."

I would like to add, yes, it is very true that Christians do speak much of the blood of Christ. Note the emphasis the Bible places on the blood of Christ:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).

"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Hebrew 9:14).

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Revelations 1:5).

The ejection of this Biblical truth by the LDS church shows again it is not a Christian church.

Note that in the following verses the Bible says salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and receiving of eternal life, is a gift of God, and it is not obtained by "works":

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

I am aware that the L.D.S church has several definitions of salvation and several degrees of glory. A good discussion of the problem is found on the Internet at http:CastYourNet.com/LDS-Shock.

The real Jesus Christ is the "only begotten of the Father." He is not one of many sons and certainly not the brother of Satan as the following Scriptures clearly state:

John 1:18, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Hebrews 1:5, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

1 John 4:9, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him."

Jesus Christ of the Bible is God Incarnate in Man

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Jesus claimed to be one with the Father.

In John 14:9, Jesus said to see him is to see the Father.

In John 8:25, 56-59, 18:6,8 Jesus used the Jehovistic "I AM," identifying Himself as God.

In Matthew 22:42-45, Jesus claimed to be the Old Testament "Adonai."

In Mark 2:5-7, Jesus forgave sin, a prerogative belonging only to God.

In Matthew 14:33; 28:9; and John 20:28-29, Jesus asserted Himself as God by allowing men to worship Him.

John 1:3 states that Jesus is the Creator, and Genesis 1:1 states that God was the Creator.

Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name "Christian." The Mormon prophets historically have openly ridiculed those who believe in the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit that the Bible reveals.

One question that I would ask all Mormons is this: "If I accept you as a Christian, will you accept me as a Mormon?" Would you accept me as a Mormon if I reject Joseph Smith and all the LDS prophets as being prophets of God. If I do not believe in the Book of Mormon or the LDS Scriptures, baptisms for the dead, the temple endowments, the LDS gospel, would you accept me as a Mormon? The answer is obviously, you would not. In like manner, when Mormonism denies the Bible and every Christian doctrine do you think that Biblical Christians should accept Mormons as Christians? Again the answer is very obvious, no we will not. You cannot legitimately claim to be Christians when you refuse to accept what the Bible teaches and what a true Christian believes.

I would implore Mormons to honestly and openly examine their teachings about God and Jesus Christ and examine who the Bible defines as being a Christian. There is no benefit in calling yourself a "Christian" when Biblically you are not.

Because we love the souls of men and want to see them, too, spend eternity in Heaven with our Savior, we strongly object to anyone proclaiming to the world a false Jesus Christ. We do not want to see anyone miss having their sins forgiven and receiving eternal life, because they were deceived.

Jesus said that He alone was the truth, the way and the life.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

Belief in the real Jesus Christ is the only way a man can receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life. The LDS, church in presenting a false Christ is, in fact, leading souls away from salvation and the real Jesus. They reject God's truth and substitute another Jesus who does not exist and cannot save. Only those who believe in the Biblical Jesus Christ will go to heaven when they die. Those who put their trust in a false Christ will be eternally lost. Every true Child of God knows this, and that is why we try so hard to point men away from false churches, prophets, gods and Christs, that they may find God's true Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved.

Let God speak for Himself by His Word.

Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 14:10-12).

Believe whatever you choose, but choose wisely.

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Post #4

Post by Kuan »

Thank you for that view, I already made the right choice and I know it. Thanks for you viewm

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Re: Why do some people believe mormons are not christian?

Post #5

Post by Katzpur »

mormon boy51 wrote:So, you can probably tell I'm Mormon and I'm willing to debate my religion or answer questions. The purpose of this thread though is that I have had many people tell me I'm not Christian even though I believe in Jesus. I'm wondering why that is. Thanks for any answers!
Mormonboy, don't worry too much about how other people want to label you. God knows who you are and He isn't going to be asking anybody else's opinion when you stand before Him to be judged.

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Post #6

Post by Katzpur »

TheFoolForHimAboveAll wrote:]Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19). Mormons have preferred to be called "saints".
The notion that we have only recently claimed to be Christians is absolutely false. There has never been a time in the Church’s 180-year history that the Latter-day Saints have not considered themselves to be Christians. For the first several years of its existance, the Church was known simply as the Church of Jesus Christ. Why on earth would any church choose to be known as the Church of Jesus Christ if it did not consider itself to be a Christian? In the beginning, it didn’t matter much what people called us. We were too busy fleeing our homes, moving from one state to another, trying to avoid the mobs of “true Christians� who were killing our men in cold-blooded murder and raping our women to spend all that much time worrying about a label. In recent years, though, as the Church has begun to experience unprecedented growth, traditional Christians have seen it as a threat. What better way could our critics discourage potential converts from looking into the Church than to state that it is not even a Christian Church?

Joseph Smith never said that all Christians were corrupt. He was speaking specifically of the 4th and 5th century creeds and of the doctrines that grew out of them. In terms of the existing churches being “all wrong,� he was doing nothing more than what Protestants and Catholics do all the time. Your profile states that you “rejected Catholicism.� Why is that? Isn’t it because you believe that certain Catholic doctrines are “wrong�? Why is it okay for you to state that Catholicism is wrong, but it’s not okay for Joseph Smith to state that both Catholicism and Protestantism are wrong? That’s not to say that all of their teachings are “wrong,� but that all of them have some doctrines that are “wrong.� If all Christian Churches today interpreted the Bible in exactly the same way, there would be only one Christian denominations instead of more than 30,000. But every one of them sees the others as being “wrong� in some way.
In the recent years the LDS church has spent millions in an intense "PR" campaign aimed at moving the church into the mainstream of Christianity. The political and economic benefits of Mormons being included in the mainstream of Christianity are obvious. Further, for Mormons to be accepted as traditional Christians would greatly aid in proselytizing the members of Christian denominations into the LDS church. This is why the LDS church is trying so hard to present itself as Christian and is trying to overcome the stigma of being a cult.
We have never considered ourselves to be a part of “mainstream� Christianity. But I ask you, if someone was trying to convince people that you were not a Christian, what would you do? This “intense PR campaign� you speak of is nothing more than our response to the constant attempts on the part of our critics to misrepresent our doctrines. It is exactly the same thing as any Christian group would do in the face of similar tactics.
The answer to the question, "Are Mormons Christians," is simple. They are not Christians for several reasons, and their unbiblical doctrines show them to be a "Christian" cult.
I see you’re going to play the “cult� card. You realize, of course, that the word “cult� has little use outside of religious mud-slinging. It is thrown out as a scare tactic by people who are themselves scared of the Church’s growth. A cult is nothing more than the church down the street from yours that you don’t like. The word says a lot more about the mentality of the person using it than it does about the group it’s being applied to. As a matter of fact, most of the criteria that people use to define the word “cult� (if they can even be pinned down to providing a definition at all) would just as easily describe 1st century Christianity as it does Mormonism.
The name Christian was first used, as Acts 11:26 records, to identify the disciples of Jesus Christ. The word "Christian" is the Greek word "christianos," and it means an adherent of Jesus Christ. It literally means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26, 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16). The correct definition of the word is one who is a follower of the Jesus Christ of the Bible. For almost two thousand years it has never had a reference to anyone other that the historical Jesus Christ of the New Testament.
We appear to agree on something.

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.

First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.
A different Jesus? That is one of the weakest arguments anti-Mormons are prone to use. I’ll tell you what Mormons believe about the “historical Jesus of the Bible�: He was with His Father in the beginning, before anything in our universe was created. It was, in fact, by His hands that our earth came into existance. Before His coming was prophesied for centuries prior to His birth to a virgin in the small middle-eastern village of Bethlehem. The historical Jesus was raised in Nazareth by His mother and her husband, Joseph, a carpenter. He grew to manhood, amazing the elders in the synagogue with his knowledge, even as a young teen. When He was about 30 years of age, He began His ministry. It was a ministry characterized by love, charity and forgiveness of ones enemies. It was literally the “good news� of mankind’s redemption, and of the promise of salvation in His Father’s kingdom. He called twelve to serve with His as His Apostles, ordained them and set them apart to continue His ministry after His death. He lived an absolutely perfect life, never sinning once. About 3 years after He began preaching His gospel, the tide of public opinion turned against Him and one of His own Apostles betrayed Him. In the days that followed, He was scorned, ridiculed, and tortured and then finally put to death in one of the most excruciatingly painful means known to man. Even while hanging on the cross, though, He asked His Father to forgive his murderers. After His death, His friends lay His body in a borrowed tomb where it remained until the morning of the third day, at which time He appeared for the first time as a resurrected being to His friends. After His resurrection, He remained with them for 40 days, at which time they watched as He ascended into the heavens where He reigns today with His Father, and where He will continue to reside until the glorious day of His Second Coming.

This is what we believe. How many different historical individuals do you believe meet these qualifications? I know of none. If you truly believe that there is more than one person whom anyone could be mistake for our Lord, I'd say it's you rather than us who is non-Biblical.

Your post is far too long for me to respond to in a single sitting. Furthermore, much of what you have posted is not official doctrine at all, but rather conjecture. In case you are not aware of this fact, there are four books of scripture that comprise our canon. They are: The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price. Together they comprise what we refer to as “The Standard Works.� They are the standards against which all teachings are measured. If something can not be found in one of those four books, it is nothing more than the opinion of the individual who said it. It doesn’t matter who that individual is. It’s an extremely simple and straightforward way of determining what’s official doctrine and what isn’t. If you want to discuss official doctrine, then stick to the Standard Works. We'll be happy to explain it if you need us to. But please don't expect us to defend out-of-context statements from non-doctrinal sources or, of all things, poetry!

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Post #7

Post by sleepyhead »

Hello Katzpur,

>>> For the first several years of its existance, the Church was known simply as the Church of Jesus Christ.<<<

The above isn't quite accurate. For a quick verification of the following just open up your D&C to the printing history. When the church began it was known as the Church of Christ which is taken from a book of Mormon instruction stating that the church should be called the Church of Christ. Then a few years later (about 1833) there were essentially two churches. The one in the east where JS was became the church of latter day saints. The church further west changed it's name to the Church iof Jesus Christ. A few years later because of some financial dealings JS had to leave town and he went to the church further west. He sort of combined the two names to what it is now.

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Post #8

Post by sleepyhead »

Hello katzpur,

After a nights sleep I thought I would respond to another portion of your response.

you>>>Your post is far too long for me to respond to in a single sitting. Furthermore, much of what you have posted is not official doctrine at all, but rather conjecture. In case you are not aware of this fact, there are four books of scripture that comprise our canon. They are: The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price. Together they comprise what we refer to as “The Standard Works.� They are the standards against which all teachings are measured. If something can not be found in one of those four books, it is nothing more than the opinion of the individual who said it.<<<

One problem with the above is your standard works change over time. For example what you now call the D&C used to be two things. The supposed revealations which you have now, and also some discourses. I forget which one was which. Many of the early revelations contained in the D&C were changed from when they were in the book of commandments.
The membership of your church are expected to believe what the prophet of your church tells them. Thus they believe the prophet can't lead the church astray even though it isn't part of your standard works. Women can no longer hold the priesthood isn't part of your standard works. Blacks not holding the priesthood wasn't part of your standard works.

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Post #9

Post by Kuan »

The church was actualy not two churches. A group split off before the main church, the real one had to move to nauvoo then to Utah because of persecution. The one in the east you are talking.g about is the RLDS church which is very different from the LDS church just like the FLDS are different from us.

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Post #10

Post by Kuan »

sleepyhead wrote: One problem with the above is your standard works change over time. For example what you now call the D&C used to be two things. The supposed revealations which you have now, and also some discourses. I forget which one was which. Many of the early revelations contained in the D&C were changed from when they were in the book of commandments.

We believe that you can still receive revelation from our father in heaven and thats is why it changes.
sleepyhead wrote: The membership of your church are expected to believe what the prophet of your church tells them. Thus they believe the prophet can't lead the church astray even though it isn't part of your standard works. Women can no longer hold the priesthood isn't part of your standard works. Blacks not holding the priesthood wasn't part of your standard works.
The first part doesnt really relate to standard works honestly. I have thought about that in my life, what if. I have faith in my prophet and trust that the lord will not let him lead me astray. One reason women cant hold the preisthood is because they dont need it. Women are special beings, they are our mothers and that is a great thing. If men didn't have the priesthood we could not become as close to heavenly father as women can. There are other reasons to but this is what i see as a good reason. Yes in the early days of our church blacks couldnt hold the priesthood. Thats why we believe in revelation, if we didnt have revelation we would not have changed it.
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