Christianity and veganism/animal rights activism.

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Do you support or are you aligned with, in some capacity, any of the following and their worldviews?

Religious and vegan/vegetarian
0
No votes
Religious and support animal welfare and rights for domestic and agricultural animals
0
No votes
Religious but support animal welfare and rights for domestic animals only
0
No votes
Non-religious and vegan/vegetarian
1
100%
Non-religious and support animal welfare and rights for domestic animals only
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 1

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Filthy Tugboat
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Christianity and veganism/animal rights activism.

Post by Filthy Tugboat »

Following many animal rights protests here in Australia over the weekend as well as worldwide over the last decade and longer a significant debate has been sparked in the media, in the social atmosphere, online and just about everywhere. The protest included a passive sit down in the middle of a busy city street for hours, activists chaining themselves to equipment in an abattoir to prevent use of the equipment and obstructing large trucks moving live chickens. Going to farms to film and photograph the establishments and their livestock.

I've seen quite a few responses to animal rights activism and I'll list a few here, do any of these arguments ring true, or false, for you, the reader?

Privacy should be respected for everyone, including farmers, nobody has the right to enter private property.

Farmers are already struggling in this country due to recent significant drought, flooding and bush fires, not to mention other challenges to running their business and the suicide rate has increased dramatically as a result. The added stress of dealing with this is literally killing people.

They sat down in a busy intersection for hours causing mayhem and massive traffic back ups, many people couldn't get to work and it even obstructed some emergency vehicles from getting to where they were needed.

The "activists" are only doing it for attention, it looks like most of them are wearing leather, the ones obstructing the trucks with livestock on may well have inadvertently killed those livestock by not allowing air circulation and keeping them from their destination where they can be fed and watered again. They don't care about animals.

More "leftist" nonsense with no respect for the economy, get a job you wan****!

God determined that Humans are to rule this world, He created these animals for us and therefore it is not wrong to eat, consume or treat them in anyway, they are ours to do with as we please.

Questions for debate, do animal rights activists and advocates have a valid point? Does the right to privacy trump animal rights? If farmers are going about their work illegally (breaching protection of animal laws), are these measures a reasonable response? What do you think of veganism and animal welfare? How does Christianity conflict or when is it harmonious with a vegan worldview?
Religion feels to me a little like a Nigerian Prince scam. The "offer" is illegitimate, the "request" is unreasonable and the source is dubious, in fact, Nigeria doesn't even have a royal family.

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Filthy Tugboat
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Re: Christianity and veganism/animal rights activism.

Post by Filthy Tugboat »

Filthy Tugboat wrote: Privacy should be respected for everyone, including farmers, nobody has the right to enter private property.
When you break the law, especially in regards to violent crimes, you forgo respect for your privacy. The safety and well being of others is more important. Anyone would jump into the back yard of someone abusing their dog and try and stop it, farm animals are no different.
Farmers are already struggling in this country due to recent significant drought, flooding and bush fires, not to mention other challenges to running their business and the suicide rate has increased dramatically as a result. The added stress of dealing with this is literally killing people.
As transparency of the industry along with well managed oversight and preventative measures are not sufficient to maintain current welfare regulations, which are lax, there is no alternative. This method is the only effective method as the government does not adequately protect animals both by having light regulation and insufficient oversight.
Inquiry Report - Regulation of Australian Agriculture wrote:The 2015 review of the administration of the Animal Welfare Act 2002 (WA) in Western Australia found that the Department of Agriculture and Food was ‘under-resourced to deliver a level of service to meet community and industry expectations’ (Easton et al. 2015, p. 3). The review found that livestock welfare investigations took priority over inspections, and that investigations were reactive not proactive due to resource constraints.
NSW Young Lawyers Animal Law Committee wrote:As a result, the detection of contraventions of animal welfare law has, in large part, been left to individuals and animal welfare groups. Had it not been for the work of these parties, illegal activities resulting in the abuse of animals would likely remain undetected.
They sat down in a busy intersection for hours causing mayhem and massive traffic back ups, many people couldn't get to work and it even obstructed some emergency vehicles from getting to where they were needed.
Many protests obstruct roads and public spaces, it is the intent to get heard which means being seen, that often requires interrupting large swaths of people. Some protests turn to rioting such as the Paris riots and even the US police murders of civilians. When someone wants to challenge a perceived injustice, you need people to notice.
The "activists" are only doing it for attention, it looks like most of them are wearing leather, the ones obstructing the trucks with livestock on may well have inadvertently killed those livestock by not allowing air circulation and keeping them from their destination where they can be fed and watered again. They don't care about animals.
Whether they are or aren't consumers of animal products shouldn't detract from the messages being portrayed. Animal transport shouldn't be a death trap if obstructed, many animals die in transport anyway due to the awful conditions they are transported in. Millions of chickens die annually due to the conditions. Source
More "leftist" nonsense with no respect for the economy, get a job you wan****!


Surprisingly animal welfare groups have a big range of political interests, they are not restricted only to the left or right, nor are they restricted into wealth brackets or employment categories. People of all types care about animals and see the current system as failing moral obligations.
God determined that Humans are to rule this world, He created these animals for us and therefore it is not wrong to eat, consume or treat them in anyway, they are ours to do with as we please.
This line of thinking cannot really be challenged intellectually but it can be challenged legally and there certainly are limits to what humans can do to animals regardless of what they believe their chosen deity allows.

Overall, it is admitted that animal welfare is not considered equal between domestic animals (pets) and those in the agriculture business. Animals bought, sold and grown for the purposes of agriculture are not protected to the same extent because it is believed to be too costly both to oversee and for the farms which would then lower exports and raise local prices of the products they are selling which injures the economic output of the country. This is focused on Australia but I wouldn't be too far off for most countries over the world. What would be called torture and would lead to prosecution if done to a domestic animal is legal to an extent and even when it is not, there isn't enough oversight to protect the majority of animals in these systems.

The systems themselves fail animals in every kind of measure for quality of life while they are alive. They do not secure social freedom, sexual freedom, autonomy or even clean living spaces. They are forced to live with excrement even where they eat. The best treatment still fails them with almost no animal in the agriculture system not being raped by it's handlers for the purpose of artificial insemination. These are cost saving measures and believed to be necessary to maintain profits which are considered more important than the animals lives, freedoms and any measure of safe and happy living.

Too many people consider the problem in only the terms of veganism being a "diet choice" or even a "lifestyle choice" when it is an entire worldview that is built from the foundation with compassion and respect for life and freedom.
Religion feels to me a little like a Nigerian Prince scam. The "offer" is illegitimate, the "request" is unreasonable and the source is dubious, in fact, Nigeria doesn't even have a royal family.

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Mithrae
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Post by Mithrae »

A fondness for meat is one of my worst moral shortcomings. The issue isn't even 'just' about animal welfare (though that's a big one), but also natural habitat destruction (eg. clearing the Amazon for cattle ranching), ongoing environmental impacts and the inefficiencies/much greater land area needed for producing calories in the form of meat vs. calories in the form of plant products. I tried a vegan cheese-like product once and found it inedible, and tofu rather pointless. There's a developing field for cultured meat which hopefully will be commercially available in a few years. 'til then I compromise by eating chicken and fish instead of cow or pig (much as I love me a bit of bacon!).

Interestingly it's possible that one early form of 'animal rights' protection is found in the bible, in the prohibition against eating flesh with its life or blood (Genesis 9:4). One theory is that a primitive form of food preservation was to cut off and eat one leg at a time from a still-living animal, and this was intended to put an end to that practice.

On the other side of the religious coin, I find it quite remarkable how much effort and attention many religious folk give to the abortion of non-sentient embryos, while having little if anything to say about the rampant maltreatment of agricultural animals every bit as capable of suffering as we are. As you've noted, among some religious folk there is a perverse belief that humans are the lords of all creation rather than merely one species among many or (at most) stewards of the earth. It's not really about animal welfare, but I found this verse from Isaiah 66 quite interesting:
  • All these things my hand has made,
    and so all these things are mine,
    says the Lord.
    But this is the one to whom I will look,
    to the humble and contrite in spirit,
    who trembles at my word.
    Whoever slaughters an ox is like one who kills a human being;
    whoever sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog’s neck;

    whoever presents a grain offering, like one who offers swine’s blood;
    whoever makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like one who blesses an idol.

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Filthy Tugboat
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Post by Filthy Tugboat »

[Replying to post 3 by Mithrae]

I share your aversion to tofu, it really sets the bar for how bland and texturaly displeasing a thing that is bafflingly popular can be. There are some phenomenal cashew cheeses though, the cheese designed for melting is quite plainly like plastic. I do understand the impediments to going vegan, the best food is the veggie based ones, stews and pastas and everything else, the "replacement meats" just always fall short and remind you that they aren't the real thing (not by a long shot). There's a good burger called "Beyond beef" as well as "the impossible burger" that stand out from the crowd. Lab based stuff, I don't understand it but they actually bleed when cooked medium.

Every little bit of reduction in meat consumption and the consumption of their products is a step in the right direction. The 20th century did a massive number on the environment and animal welfare. It's not surprising that Veganism and the like have grown so huge considering factory farming began within the same century. Though there are many schools of thought that have been very pro-compassion for a long time, Jainism stands out to me but I'm not sure how true that actually is.

Any thoughts on the actions of activist groups like those mentioned above? Perhaps pick the cream of the crop that was good and what you consider to be more misguided in what they're trying to do?
Religion feels to me a little like a Nigerian Prince scam. The "offer" is illegitimate, the "request" is unreasonable and the source is dubious, in fact, Nigeria doesn't even have a royal family.

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William
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Post by William »

I think the problem is greater than just what you have focused on here Filthy.

We are informed that the climate is drastically changing and the outlook is rather grim for humanity and will get so bad that the inconveniences you mention will - in hindsight - be seen as the shallow things that they actually are.

I personally think that hemp is the best answer to humanities immediate problems - problems which humanity has created for itself.

I think that these protesters are - for the most part - reacting to the realness of the problem while those they are inconveniencing are not, preferring to go about business as usual.

I got this in my FB feed earlier this week;

Image[/quote]

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