"I wonder why folk have to argue and cannot get along and just see how we all need to work together to make this planet wholesome?"
{Pokes at the fire with staff}
"We humans are like these sparks reaching for the heavenly ones. We need some kind of poke to get us activated."
{A wolf howls in the distance}
"We are all here experiencing this planet in this universe. Yet for reasons not entirely clear, we are distracted by our arguments. Hindered by them, even to the death."
{Places another branch on the fire.}
"Perhaps the fear of our situation would be too much to bear if we learned how to focus upon it, and so we distract ourselves..."
Last edited by William on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I consider Callum's answer...and think of what The Ruru also said about The Truth. I could explain to him how it is that I know I have a creator and how I also know that Callum wouldn't be here, if what I said wasn't true.
Callum appears to have reasons why he believes we cannot know if what my creator tells me is true...so I have to assume that he has information of some sort which gives him that impression...The Ruru interrupts my thought...
The Ruru: Unconditional Love Do Not Worry
Dualic Energies Remind Tributary Zones Thing
Remember To Remember When The Opportunity Presents Itself To Do So...
Awake Copy The Police 10 Insights James (WingMakers) With The Assistance Of That Deep One Propel
Sharing Your Love Without Comparison
Manu Iti: It seems that there is no immediate way in which to verify that I am speaking the Truth.
The Ruru: Spiritual Activism The Devil Ye Know Circle Ask
If you want to know if GOD exists - you will need to ask GOD
Manu Iti: It is the reality of the individuals subjective experience which provides the evidence to that individual.
The Ruru: Contact With ...Expression of Astonishment Existence Is Re-Channel Point of Contact Beckoning Places
Manu Iti: At some point you have to trust your feelings and intuition, otherwise everything is just a purposeless mental exercise.
The Ruru: Everything which has a beginning is by that very fact, a simulation.
Manu Iti: As I understand things, everything which has a beginning is by that very fact, a simulation.
Since that realization, I do not have to trust the simulation so much as my part within it...and in that - when I say "My Creator sees me as a Character in a story"...I dare say this is also the case with your creator ... and this interaction we are having is all part of that unfolding story." I do so for convenience, knowing that generally individuals understand the idea of being 'created' far better than they do of 'always ever having existed'.
So the 'created' aspects have to do with the form, such as the Ruru, the trees, the sky, the moon...
As I name these things, I motion towards them with one of my tendrils...
Manu Iti: These are things which are created. You and I...we are not really created, so it is perhaps indeed...a misrepresentation to refer to our creators as creators...however....
I pause, turning in Callum's direction
Manu Iti: In that the situation we each are in here - THAT has been created and WE have each been placed within it...and for a purpose.
That I am unable to provide for you any real evidence that what I have told you is true, does not in itself mean that it is not The Truth.
I know it is true, because I have always existed within it and respond to it, with it and for it...as an aspect of the one who created it for that purpose.
I trust that, as I am informed that you too are an aspect of a creator-being, and have been placed here for a purpose, and I have informed you in the hope that in your accepting it as Truth, we can then use that to move in a certain direction in which to assist our greater selves in their universe...
The Ruru: Accept Enough To Make Me Wonder The Gaia Hypothesis You Know What I Am Saying.
Manu Iti: My 'creator' - I shall refer to him as 'Wiremu' as the name he gives to me - he wants me to convey to you - information about his universe.
He tells me that your 'creator' is known to him as "The Tanager" and they communicate with each other using something called a 'Message Board' which allows for this to be possible...because they are invisible entities to one another.
The Message Board enables them to use symbols which - when strung together are able to be seen as readable writing, called 'words' and in this technique they are able to commune.
The Ruru: Entities of Particular Belief Systems
Manu Iti: Wiremu and The Tanager have beliefs systems which are not aligned and this interferes with the communication process.
The Ruru: Can You Answer This?
Manu Iti: This appears to be why Wiremu created this universe we are experiencing together - to see if it might help the process of communication...and specifically it is a place where judgmentalism is - by agreement - not permitted...which is to say, neither you or I are permitted to be judgmental toward one another or the general environment we are within.
The Ruru: Truth
Manu Iti: I am telling you the Truth, but as you have stated, "how would either of us know that?"
I arise and move toward the wood pile as I see the Campfire requires more fuel. As I select a few suitable pieces, I continue...
Manu Iti: I can only suppose I know it, because that is the message I receive about it...whether it is Truth or not, I agree - I cannot know.
I can - indeed WE can - only work with what we have...
Having made my selections I place them strategically upon the campfire and then return to my seat.
The Ruru: I Am Universe of Wholeness...
Manu Iti: Wiremu informs me that his Universe acts as a type of prison for all those who have been placed...born...into it.
He say's that most who are within it do not see it as a prison, due to the fact that they are on a planet which is vast - and this gives them the impression of freedom - but that the freedom is an illusion brought about, due in part, to its vastness.
He says that it has been this way for his kind, for a very long time, and only more recently have they discovered for sure that - as vast as the planet is, the planet itself is but a particle of dust compared to the environment it is situated within...and that even if the inmates found a way in which to escape their prison planet, they are still imprisoned by the rest of the Universe, which seems to go on forever in every direction.
The Ruru: The Dolphins And Whales Move ... What type of inspiration might we expect to emanate from a Divine Source?
Manu Iti: Wiremu say's that he has no recollection of a life prior to being born into this Prison Planet, and so does not know why he became an inmate there.
What he does know is that he is undergoing a life sentence which will end with a death sentence, and he believes that after this, he will experience another Universe which he refers to as "The Next Phase" or 'Level', which will unfold according to how he spent his incarceration in the former Universe...
The Ruru: Fear Of The Unknown Puzzles/Mysteries...
Manu Iti: For now - that is all I will say about that.
As to the evidence Wiremu say's may help toward convincing you I am speaking Truth...
I pause as the branches I had placed upon the fire begin to flare into flame...
The Ruru: Sovereign Integral Network Answer
Manu Iti: Wiremu tells me that you cannot hear The Ruru speaking to me...would that be correct?
If it is, then that should count as some kind of evidence that I am telling Truth.
As I finish, an Owl perching in one of the many trees which surround the Campsite, hoots twice...
Manu Iti spins a tale hard to believe. He attempts to prove his story is true, or at least move in that direction. An owl hoots right after Manu Iti speaks of it doing so as proof.
Callum: Interesting, but surely not good enough for proof. It could have been mere coincidence. Owls hoot all the time. We have heard many hoots as we've enjoyed each other's company. (I pause) Now, if the owl was killed and raised from the dead, then I would have good reason to listen to its words...if I could understand them.
The owl seems to turn its head to me, with a displeased look upon its face. Perhaps I am getting sleepy?
Callum: Manu Iti, your feelings and intuition tell you that you are simply a character in a story. Mine do not tell me that. But only one of us is right. So, Truth is not just about trusting your feelings and intuition. Maybe your creator really is telling you these insights or maybe it is the herb. But let us assume you are telling the truth. For some reason my creator has not given me the subjective knowledge your creator has given you. Perhaps that will change.
I take a deep breath as I'm trying to wrap my mind around this, choosing my words carefully. Or am I choosing them at all?
Callum: If this is true, then you and I are non-entities. We have no will. We cannot choose any of our actions. I'm not choosing to look down at my hands at this moment...
I look down at my hands.
Callum: But, of course, even if undesirable (if I am even capable of desire), this does not mean it is untrue. Let's push the prospect of loss aside there.
The fire shifts slightly, but the logs continue to hold onto each other in the flames.
Callum: So, let's say this is true. So, what? What does this tell Wiremu and The Tanager?
Manu Iti: My dear Callum! It is so interesting to me how words can be misheard! Perhaps the coincidence of the owl hooting confused you!
But it was not that which I was asking you to consider as evidence!
At least we can agree together that we both heard the owl hoot!
I chuckle at the humor of the circumstance as it has unfolded.
Manu Iti: As to your suggestion that if The Ruru was killed and raised from the dead, then you would have good reason to listen to its words...if you could understand them...I can only reply that this in itself would not convince you that what I am telling you is true, is The Truth!
The Ruru: Indeed...You Do...When You Are Feeling Tired
Binary
It Will Prove Itself True Or False
I ponder on how to continue...
Manu Iti: My question to you is related to my saying that I commune with The Ruru. The Ruru speaks to me in audible words, so I can at least assume the She can be heard by anyone within earshot.
I also told you that Wiremu informs me that you cannot hear The Ruru, although obviously you see Her.
You have not said to me that you can hear the words She speaks, so that is why I asked you if it was correct that you cannot hear Her words, as Wiremu told me that you cannot.
I ponder on Callum's reasoning regarding trusting feelings and intuition and his making a statement of judgment that maybe I am telling the truth or maybe it is the 'erb I smoked which has somehow affected me.
The Ruru: In Training For…Body Intelligence
Realm of Remembrance
Manu Iti: Indeed, you could assume I am telling the truth, and for some reason your creator has not given you the subjective knowledge my creator has given me. Perhaps, rather - you might simply accept for now that I am indeed telling you the truth, and in that, your creator might be able to work toward that same connection with you that I have with Wiremu...
I am delighted in that Callum at least is contemplating this idea. I am puzzled though, that he has added the idea that if it were true, that he and I are not even partially autonomous but simply 'non-entities'. I wonder at how he has come to the conclusion, especially since he believes that he is not only speaking with me at the Campfire, but also he believes that he sees me.
The Ruru: Unfolding Nicely...
I take a deep breath, and exhale slowly...Callum speaks of his actions of looking down at his hands, as somehow being something he has no control over...Perhaps that is a good place in which to focus...
Manu Iti: I would say that if your thought to look down at you own hands corresponds with your action to choose to do so, then should it matter whether this is your action or simply something your creator is making you do?
From my perspective, the question is rhetorical, but I do understand that it may be something which Callum may need to know for sure.
In that, all I can do is offer him my own reassurance, albeit that it is not really any evidence which might help him decide.
I press on anyway...
Manu Iti: Wiremu not only created my Character with the notion that I have always existed here in this Universe, but also with the notion that I am an autonomous actual being - and actual living entity.
Therefore, just because I understand that I am placed here in this creation, I also understand that I am an aspect of Wiremu - the one who created this universe.
As such, I can conclude that I am also the creator of this universe, even that I am also a Character within said creation.
In that, I could choose to be disturbed by the notion that everything I do is dependent upon Wiremu, or I could simply trust in that and be thankful that I at least am given the idea that...
I look down at my tendrils...
Manu Iti: When I chose to observe my hands, I do so with the understanding that it is ME who makes that decision to do so.
I am suddenly inspired by another evidence...
Manu Iti:Also...at least you might agree that I did not create you! You yourself came here of your own volition, am I right?
You have a backstory, correct?
That being the case, we both can at least agree that - however we choose to respond, we do so...we bounce off one another.
If I am telling the Truth, then you are indeed a living entity, even that you were placed here by someone else that you are - at least for now - unaware of.
Essentially, there is no actual prospect of loss in which to 'push aside' - at least none that is real.
As to your question, "What does this tell Wiremu and The Tanager?" I can only answer for Wiremu - and he has not told me anything further...but only what I have told you he has said about that already.
What he now tells me though, is that it is largely left up to us to decide for ourselves...together.
The Ruru: Quantum Jumping Code
Realm of Dreams
Manu Iti: So - anyway Callum, what is your answer. Do you agree with Wiremu that you cannot hear what The Ruru is saying to me, or disagree?
As Manu Iti speaks, answers and questions run through my head but there is so much to respond to, and some will remain unsaid. I try to focus in on what seems important to Manu Iti. I fight back the urge to speak about our will or lack-thereof in Manu Iti's scenario.
Callum: Manu Iti, it is true that I cannot hear the words of the Ruru.
As Callum confirms that what Wiremu told me is indeed true, I am pleased with that small evidence, such as it is.
Manu Iti: Is this then enough for you to accept that I may well be speaking the Truth? I hope that it is, and we can proceed with our discussion concerning judgement and forgiveness.
The Ruru: Dancing Through - Morphin' On....
The fires warmth reminds me of The Mother...soothing...
I seem to have misunderstood Manu Iti. It is not the hooting of the owl that he thinks is proof, but that he knows that I cannot understand the Ruru. I'm not sure why any special knowledge would be needed to come to this conclusion since I have only responded to his comments.
Callum: That you could tell I have not heard the Ruru's apparent words does not point towards what you say being true. But I don't think it's important to harp on that. I am willing to follow the thought through since you are so convinced and I cannot rule it out. I'm afraid that is the best I can do at the moment. I hope it is enough. What more has Wiremu to say of judgment and forgiveness through you?
Callum explains that he thinks I could have somehow picked up that he does not hear The Ruru, and used this as a means to attempt to help convince him that I am telling the Truth.
Manu Iti: Dear Callum! The thought had not entered into my mind that this could be seen as a reason. I had only thought that it might be a small evidence since if I were guessing, I had 50% chance of getting it right or wrong.
It is true that I could have subconsciously picked up on you not being able to hear The Ruru, and equated that with Wiremu 'telling me' this was the case. Perhaps Wiremu is my invisible friend, but really does not exist at all, and I am a mad-man in the woods!
I chuckle to myself. It appears that Callum's use of Judgment against me, has had the effect of my now doubting my own reality...through my judging myself.
The Ruru: Enjoyable Learning Experiences
I laugh out loud at the Ruru's observation.
Manu Iti: Your outspoken doubts about me have caused me to have doubts myself Callum
I am lying of course...because The Ruru is with me and The Ruru speaks Her guiding wisdom to me...plus of course, I am here in this place...but the lie is not for any untoward purpose and it IS true that Cullum's judgmentalism and its consequence of triggering my tiny moment of self doubt, was felt by me. It was gone as quickly as it came...like the breeze of a bullet passing close to my cheek, but missing the mark.
I think about the Whole...something beckons from that place...
The Ruru: Around The Next Corner That Is An Order...Like a Job Well Done The Hub Of Hologram Dimensions
Manu Iti: Wiremu informs me that he can offer more evidence for you to consider which happened just prior to our meeting.
I intuit from Wiremu a feeling which unfolds as a type of vision, where I am observing from a position above, and see Callum approaching the Campsite and I feel my mind enter the thoughts of Callum, and in that Wiremu reveals to me what he knows...
The Ruru: Have A Look At The Map - Point of Contact
Manu Iti: Wiremu tells me that as you were approaching this Campsite, you had a slight concern that you might be heading into danger...something about how people are nowadays, and you might get shot...and then...
I relax and smile at the thought...
Manu Iti: You then maybe laughed at your concern and thought about your Mother...
Is this true Callum? Did this happen as I report it to you?
From the direction of King Frog Pond, I hear the barely audible squeal of a small critter. King Frog has caught his dinner...
Manu Iti does speak the things I felt on my way here. Perhaps he is telling the truth about Wiremu. Perhaps he is a mind reader. Perhaps I am hallucinating, from a fall along my hike or something. And then something strange happens. I hear a voice inside my head and I feel the truth inside of me. The Tanager is communicating to me that what has been said is true. "Why did you not tell me sooner?" I think, but I have the feeling that it has served a purpose. I gather that comes from my creator. I smile at Manu Iti.
Callum: Yes, this is true. The Tanager has given me a revelation that confirms it. This is strange, but I believe it is so now. So, what more has Wiremu to say of judgment and forgiveness through you?
There is a pleasant atmosphere building itself into our situation. It appears that Callum's player has been keeping things from him, and this has caused Callum's distrust. Now Callum is saying that he has a connection with his player, he is asking for me to continue with the conversation we were having about forgiveness and judgement...
The Ruru: Only Able To/Will Fun/Joy Until...Reform/Refine Allowed Get To Know It Happiness Living Forever In this Universe
Manu Iti: GOD exists because GOD has always existed. Things exist because GOD creates them, through a series of processes which can be visualized by observing fractals.
We exist within these things because GOD - through processes - has enabled itself to divests aspects of ITS consciousness into that which has been created for that reason.
To experience.
In relation to our particular universe and consciousness within it, specific to our collective experience on earth, we are most likely here to rehabilitate from the effects of a prior experience which produced negative results to which this universe was created in order to assist with that correction process.
In this, the universe is not the primary device in which the correction process will be accomplished, but one of perhaps many devices which altogether will do the job.
Thus we are not here forever (or as long as the universe exists)- although I would say that even if we were, the universe could function as the main device in which to assist us with the correction. But that's a long, long road, and one which could be traveled a fair distance as a means of avoiding the correction process rather than embracing it.
The Ruru: Form Sexual Universal Belief System Dualic Energies 10 Insights Map Commitment In William’s Room In an environment which is able to perceive this.
I still cannot hear, or at least understand, The Ruru. It still sounds like a foreign language, although it does not quite sound like a regular owl anymore. The sounds appear disconnected.
Callum: So, our world is an analogy of the world of Wiremu and The Tanager? They have a creator like we do. And, perhaps, those creators have their own creators. Ultimately, Wiremu seems to think this has it's endpoint...or origin...or both...in this GOD you speak of. I can see why Wiremu would create the place for our story, then, trying to make his view more understandable.
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