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Replying to post 2 by Jagella]
You may wish to read the lyrics of John Lennon's Imagine to see what I mean.
John wrote:
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world, you
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Presumption and Imagination
Condescending Ideas About Imagination
Is it correct to delegate imagination as 'woo'?
Is this OP supposed to be some kind of plea for us atheists to stop debating Christians?
Nope. Rather it is a hope that such atheists will see the light as they develop their critical thinking skills.
Is this simply wishful thinking on my part? Certainly ex-member mr.hagerty thought so, when he called me a 'dreamer' for believing this could be a possibility. That what I had to say about what I observe, might cause such ripple effect.
(((o)))
"You may say that I AM a dreamer!"
Are you trying to scare us off claiming without a shred of evidence that our arguments are counter-productive?
Who are you trying to impress here with your bold words of claim? I offered evidence when I wrote in the OP;
the idea that continuing to 'debate' with those who have no actual interest in negotiating their faith-based beliefs with anyone... in some wishful hopeful belief that the effort will somehow garner the reward expected, can only ever play into the hand of the faithful as a means of continuing to find fresh audience for their proselytizing their NONNEGOTIABLE faith-based beliefs, because the reliance is on the atheist entering such 'debate' and giving the opportunity for this to happen on a public platform designed for that purpose.
This amounts to the atheist helping in the spread of that which is being proselytized by the Christian and other Abranites.
That is more than just one 'shred' of evidence which can be observed just through looking.
Even that the fact of the matter is that this war has been raging for hundreds of years with no victors in sight, tends toward evidence of the futility of the habitual dynamic.
Maybe those 'Atheists' who 'welcome an audience to read all their debates' are really Christians pretending to be atheist to help that process along? Who can really know eh?
Anything to get the attention the Abramites demand.
Well, why don't we atheists keep criticizing Christian beliefs and see what results?
As I wrote the "we atheists" you appear to write on behalf of, have been doing this for centuries, so if they haven't worked out the results already...then enter those who will attempt to help them reach the conclusions that they must, in order to do something productive about it.
If you're right, then Christians should welcome our criticisms.
They do.
They also see it as a direct
evidence that they are on the
right track because the 'devil is roaring at them like a lion' and 'attacking them as their LORD said would occur'! It is called 'persecution'.
Atheists attend faithfully to that role the Abrahamites expect of them.
Also,
hereabouts they have an 'embassy' where they can call upon "diplomatic immunity" where atheists are not welcome with questions which attempt to make their book-god have to prove itself. Therein IT is the assumed authority.
Q: Are their better ways for atheists to fight a good fight, which can impact more directly at the heart of the human problem, which don't involve wasting time in giving Abrahamites every opportunity to proselytize?
Obviously this is a loaded question
Yes. It is obviously intended to get the reader thinking about alternate ways to 'fight the good fight' while also inviting alternatives which might be considered as being possibly regarded as great examples as to what "Fighting the good fight" actually entails.
"Hang in their buddy and continue to do what we have done for centuries" is suspiciously looking more and more redundant.
allow me to say that there are other things atheists can do to fight religion and superstition. Educating the public about religion is one such thing we can do.
'tis all I am attempting to do here myself, in a way. Not so much about ''religion and superstition'' as to point out the evidence which supports the observation that ancient habits of interaction between theists and atheists have contributed nothing substantial or world-changing and can be regarded as 'not a good fight' at all, especially when education is desperately needed in the matter of fact of the planet warming up and what humans have to do in order to help correct that very major problem.
So much more major than continuing on in the repetitive rambunctious noise-making centuries old dynamic of the war between supporters of organised religious script and non theists. Not a 'good fight' at all when compared. Pretty frivolous really, with the added dimension of reality that both theists and atheists are going to fry together, and die that way, as if the Earth itself has no side She wishes to take on the argument.
