Jesus is God

[For_The_Kingdom]

First of all, I never knew that so many suspected "unbelievers" in the Christian religion were so fascinated about whether or not Jesus is God. If you don't believe in Jesus or God, then why do you care? It blows my mind.

Anyway..

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

Argument from Perfection: The Bible is clear, Jesus was/is without sin (morally perfect). The argument goes like this..

1. Only God is without sin
2. Jesus is without sin
3. Therefore, Jesus is God

#1 is virtually undisputed. #2 is Biblical based on two immediate Scriptures..

a. 2 Corin 5:21 "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him".

b. Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin".

Now, the idea is; if you replace Jesus' name in #2 with ANY other name in Heaven or on Earth, the proposition becomes false and the entire syllogism is false.

The conclusion is simple; in order to be God, you must be without sin..and to be without sin, you must be God. Jesus meets/met those requirements, therefore, Jesus is God.

Argument from John 14:1-9: Long story short, Jesus was constantly preaching/lecturing about "The Father this, The Father that"...until Philip finally said "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be good enough"...and Jesus said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father".

Jesus is saying that seeing him is the same has seeing the Father...but if the Father is on SUCH A HIGH PEDESTAL and is light years ahead of any other entity in Heaven or on Earth, how dare Jesus say "He who has seen me has seen the Father".

In other words, if the Father took on human form and made his dwelling among us on Earth, his form would be Jesus.

If the Father is God, and Jesus said to see him is to see the Father, then Jesus must also be God. This just follows logically.

Argument from Hebrews 1:3: "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.."

This is the same reasoning applied to Heb 4 (above). If God is the holiest of all holiest, how can any other being come close, must less be the "exact representation" of his being?

How can you be the "exact representation" of someone that is the epitome of holiness/righteousness...unless you yourself is also the epitome of holiness/righteousness?

Actually, you can sum up all three arguments as the "Argument from Perfection"..and of course, there are plenty of other "Trinity proof" Scriptures that I can throw in there, but I wanted to attack this from a different angel.

And lastly, as much as these arguments harmonize, they are all independent...so even if you manage to wiggle your way out of one...you still have to deal with the others.

Actually, there is no way out; Jesus is God, whether we like it or not.

[Avoice]

I got news for you. There is another name that can be found when searching heaven and earth. One that is sinless. And what is truly amazing is how much he and Jesus have in common. Even more amazing is that what they have in common is only they have these characteristics.

Both are among those called the sons of God.
Both are described as a light
Both dont speak their own words.
Both remind people of God's law
Both don't sin but get other to sin
Both promise eternal life
Both have power over evil spirits
Both live forever
Both will say they knew you or didnt know you
"No one gets to the father" except through them
Both have been around since mans beginnings
Both stand in judgement. Accusing people of their sins.


Who fits #2?
Satan. Gods messenger. An angel of light. Who he himself is sinless but gets others to break the laws of God. He quote the law makng sure you know full well that you are sinning intentionally. When he accuses you in the end you will be reminded of that. No, no one gets to the father but through him.. Absolutely. We must overcome his temptations in order to be righteous before God.

Jesus- the words he soraks are not his. He said so. He didbt come to do his will. He said so.
So what is his will? The one you call lord and savior is an unknown entity with all the characteristics of someone who has been identified. And no one else fits this description.

On judgement day pray that Jesus says he doesn't know you. No wonder why the disciples call themselves prisoners in christ

[brianbbs67]

I got news for you. There is another name that can be found when searching heaven and earth. One that is sinless. And what is truly amazing is how much he and Jesus have in common. Even more amazing is that what they have in common is only they have these characteristics.

Both are among those called the sons of God.
Both are described as a light
Both dont speak their own words.
Both remind people of God's law
Both don't sin but get other to sin
Both promise eternal life
Both have power over evil spirits
Both live forever
Both will say they knew you or didnt know you
"No one gets to the father" except through them
Both have been around since mans beginnings
Both stand in judgement. Accusing people of their sins.


Who fits #2?
Satan. Gods messenger. An angel of light. Who he himself is sinless but gets others to break the laws of God. He quote the law makng sure you know full well that you are sinning intentionally. When he accuses you in the end you will be reminded of that. No, no one gets to the father but through him.. Absolutely. We must overcome his temptations in order to be righteous before God.

Jesus- the words he soraks are not his. He said so. He didbt come to do his will. He said so.
So what is his will? The one you call lord and savior is an unknown entity with all the characteristics of someone who has been identified. And no one else fits this description.

On judgement day pray that Jesus says he doesn't know you. No wonder why the disciples call themselves prisoners in christ

Is not causing someone to break the law, breaking the law? That should defeat that analogy.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 395 by brianbbs67]


That one thing beats my analogy? At least you didnt say the rest i listed was unsubstantiated. But if that one thing 'fit' then you would take notice?

The devil made me do it is a cop out Satan doesn't MAKE us do anything. But his job is to try and get you to turn away from God. Its a tough job. God uses him for that purpose. And Satan is truly hated without a cause. Now if Satan forced us to sin against our will rhat woukd be different. Satan just makes things so attractive. And what greater temptation us there than the promise of living forever? Satan said all a man has hell give for his life. And all man really has is God. And forbJesys to benefit anyone the Christian Testament says we can not be under the law. In other words one must turn their back on the law to save themself AND THEY MUST CALL JESUS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR.

I dont want to offend anyone by implying Jesus is like Satan. We need Satan. For wirhout him how could we choose to good.

I cant help but recall words spoken about jesus' death Described as "Destroying sin in the flesh" interesting

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 395 by brianbbs67]


That one thing beats my analogy? At least you didnt say the rest i listed was unsubstantiated. But if that one thing 'fit' then you would take notice?

The devil made me do it is a cop out Satan doesn't MAKE us do anything. But his job is to try and get you to turn away from God. Its a tough job. God uses him for that purpose. And Satan is truly hated without a cause. Now if Satan forced us to sin against our will rhat woukd be different. Satan just makes things so attractive. And what greater temptation us there than the promise of living forever? Satan said all a man has hell give for his life. And all man really has is God. And forbJesys to benefit anyone the Christian Testament says we can not be under the law. In other words one must turn their back on the law to save themself AND THEY MUST CALL JESUS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR.

I dont want to offend anyone by implying Jesus is like Satan. We need Satan. For wirhout him how could we choose to good.

I cant help but recall words spoken about jesus' death Described as "Destroying sin in the flesh" interesting

Yeshua never taught against the law. Neither did his disciples. Unless you read Paul out of context or Paul is a false prophet. Nor did they encourage others to do so.

The devil made me do it is a copout. We choose. Only God gives salvation. Yeshua showed a way to that salvation. Follow the Law given by God. If you read just the 4 gospel and write down his commands, they are about following the law.

Ha'satan simply means adversary. He has a purpose given by God. Job gives an account of this. He can not force us to do a thing. We choose evil over Law. We know its wrong but do it anyway.

Modern Christianity has lost that this was a Hebrew religion and movement. Once Rome took control as a government religion, it was a done deal. 1800 years of deception via Greece and Rome. Ha' satan pulled of a great trick there. The coverts in Acts are being brought in the Hebrew faith following Moses and Noahide laws for conversion. They were not to be christians, they were to be Hebrews. It is clear , now that how Christ said many would call and he would not know them.

Welcome to the Grand Illusion.

[polonius]

For the Kingdom posted:

First of all, I never knew that so many suspected "unbelievers" in the Christian religion were so fascinated about whether or not Jesus is God. If you don't believe in Jesus or God, then why do you care? It blows my mind.

Anyway..

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God.. [/quote]

RESPONSE: Were any of the books of the New Testament written by witnesses to what they report? How long after the events they describe were they actually written?

[onewithhim]

For the KIngdom posted:

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

RESPONSE:

I gather you are referring to the New Testament.

Do you dispute the fact that the New Testament was written 40 to 65 years after the events it describes by non-witnesses who were attempting to found a new belief system?

The New Testament does not prove that Jesus is God. The original languages---Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek---that the Bible is written in show a much different story than most of the translations put forth. People say that the Bible says at John 1:1 that "the Word was God," when in the original Greek John wrote "the Word was a god." (See the Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson.) The folks of John's day understood that to mean that the Word was an important, powerful individual, not the Almighty God.

So please don't say that the New Testament makes Jesus out to be God. It's just when you take the word of translations that twist phrases and insert extra things and change words, that you see that Jesus seems to be God.

The N.T. was written by people that were witnesses of Jesus, and most knew him well. And they all knew that he was THE SON of God and not the erroneous title of "God the Son," which does not appear anywhere in Scripture.


Jesus said in prayer to the Father: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know YOU, the only true God, and the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

He said to Mary after his resurrection: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God," (John 20:17b)

[myth-one.com]

Anyway..

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

Argument from Perfection: The Bible is clear, Jesus was/is without sin (morally perfect). The argument goes like this..

1. Only God is without sin
2. Jesus is without sin
3. Therefore, Jesus is God

1. God is immortal.
2. Jesus died on the cross.
3. Therefore, Jesus was not God.

Your fixation on the fate of the body leads you astray...
The meaning of 'death' is variable. It can mean the death of one's body or the eternal separation from GOD as found in the banishment to the outer darkness. I reject that the spirits created in GOD's image can be annihilated so death does not mean annihilation.

So how does the death of the body that GOD chose to inhabit prove non-Divinity??? You do not seem to be claiming that GOD cannot inhabit a mortal body that will die when when He leaves that body. All alive bodies are inhabited by a spirit that transcends that body...where is it written that that spirit cannot be a Divine Spirit?

It's wrong to use mortal about the spirit that survives the death of its body...only bodies are mortal and so far only resurrected bodies are immortal, maybe.

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

If Jesus was God, then He could not fulfill His mission, and we would have no Savior!

How do you resolve that logical problem?

A Divine Spirit can be in a mortal body the same as any spirit, and therefore can leave the body and it will die...how does that interfere with His death being to our salvation???
And His resurrection being to our highest hope??

[PinSeeker]

Were any of the books of the New Testament written by witnesses to what they report?

Yes.

How long after the events they describe were they actually written?

Time is not an issue. If all Scripture is God-breathed (and it is; the writing of the various parts of Scripture by various men over a long period was superintended by God the Holy Spirit), then any delay between biblical events and when they were actually recorded in writing is irrelevant, as God is unchanging -- He is the great I AM. Which is yet another proof that Jesus is God made man -- He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow (according to the writer of Hebrews)... which is not to say that He was different two days ago or that He will be changing day after tomorrow. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all, as the One True (triune) God, from everlasting to everlasting.

I'm sure there will be plenty of disagreement on these things. No matter. Grace and peace to all.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 397 by brianbbs67]

As an example God commanded we keep the Passover to remember the day get brought us but of Egypt. To eat no leaven for a week. The Christian testament preaches that nothing that goes in the mouth is bad. They eat pig. God said not to eat it. Why do they listen to Paul from Tarsus and not their creator?

How can you say that the Christian testament upholds the laws God commanded?

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 397 by brianbbs67]

As an example God commanded we keep the Passover to remember the day get brought us but of Egypt. To eat no leaven for a week. The Christian testament preaches that nothing that goes in the mouth is bad. They eat pig. God said not to eat it. Why do they listen to Paul from Tarsus and not their creator?

How can you say that the Christian testament upholds the laws God commanded?

The New Testament never claims that it is acceptable to eat swine. Paul not only upholds the Mosaic law, but explicitly instructs the church to keep the feast of Unleavened Bread.

Christ is our Passover, therefore let us keep the feast 1 Corinthians 5:7,8

The Acts of the Apostles also document that Paul proclaimed the gospel in the synagogues on the Sabbath. He preached to entire gentile communities on the Sabbath. Those same gentiles asked if he would be back the following Sabbath to preach as well. What an excellent opportunity for Paul to point out that he wouldn't have to wait until the following Sabbath, but could continue preaching the very next day. He didn't do that. He came back the following week on the Sabbath and continued his preaching.

Paul's arguments aren't very well understood by most people, especially Christians. Those who aren't familiar with the texts are at an even greater disadvantage.

Your claims are baseless and unsubstantiated.