Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

[Jagella]

I think almost all of us can agree that the writer of the Epistle to the Romans, Paul, existed. Obviously a person needs to exist to write an epistle. So if we understand "Paul" to be the person who wrote Romans, then Paul's historicity is assured. (There are historical problems regarding the details of Paul's life, but that's another issue.)

Unfortunately, we have no such luxury with Jesus because we have nothing he may have written. Real-Jesus apologists explain away this lack of evidence telling us that Jesus, like many other people, could have existed without writing anything. And neither should we expect Jesus to have written anything because he was an illiterate country bumpkin, after all. Besides, Jesus believed the world would soon end, so who needs anything written down for posterity?

I disagree with this reasoning. For starters, explaining why we have nothing written by Jesus isn't evidence. It's just an attempted explanation for why we have no such evidence.

Another objection I might raise is that the Jesus as he is portrayed in the gospel tale is no dummy. He was very erudite and a first-class communicator. He could have been literate and able to write, and if he was illiterate, then he could have recruited a literate disciple to write down what he said.

Finally, Jesus believing that the world would end soon is not necessarily a good reason for his not having anything written down. It wouldn't take that long to commit his ideas to written form. And soon after the time Jesus presumably lived, Paul got busy writing about Jesus. A few decades later more Christians wrote of Jesus in the many gospels. So if these Christians saw the necessity for writing about Jesus even though they believed the apocalypse was near, then it's a mystery that Jesus didn't bother to commit anything to writing.

Question for Debate: Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

The new covenant wasn't supposed to be a written code but a ministry of God directly through the Spirit.

The Gospel has Jesus using one of the prophecies but declaring it as understood to mean that it meant God directing the elect to him.

New International Version (NIV)

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[a] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

It's actually a misquote of the following text and was certainly not fulfilled in Christ who also claimed his mission was to bring discord and the sword.

Isaiah 54:12-14 New International Version (NIV)

12 I will make your battlements of rubies,
your gates of sparkling jewels,
and all your walls of precious stones.
13 All your children will be taught by the Lord,
and great will be their peace.
14 In righteousness you will be established:
Tyranny will be far from you;
you will have nothing to fear.
Terror will be far removed;
it will not come near you.

Paul also used the term. Implying that they really didn't need instructions on account of the Holy Spirit having taught them already. He equated his institution with that of God himself.

1 Thessalonians 4:8-10 New International Version (NIV)

8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.

9 Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other. 10 And in fact, you do love all of God’s family throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers and sisters, to do so more and more,

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Just a couple of points here. First you say,

he could have recruited a literate disciple to write down what he said.

Isn't this what we have in the NT? Of course you may object that this would have been after Jesus died, but it is clear that the Gospels claim that Jesus did in fact recruit certain men who later became known as Apostles, and they did in fact claim to have written down what he said.

Next, as we think about the fact that we have nothing in writing from Jesus himself, this would mean those that did write about him, somehow caused him to become, one of the most, if not the most well known names in the history of all the world.

In fact, a modern magazine, (and they would not be the only one) some 2000 years later, proclaimed Jesus to be the most influential figure in all of history.

Now, I don't care who you are, that is a pretty amazing feat for a small group of uneducated, common men to accomplish especially with all that would have to be involved in such a feat.

The point is, either way you slice it, the facts would be amazing. In other words, we either have these men reporting the truth. Or, they caused a man, who never left anything in writing, or who may have never even existed, to become, one of the most well known, if not the most well known figures in history.

Why would Jesus not leave anything in writing? Anyone who would attempt to answer this question would have to do so, purely based upon speculations.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 3 by Realworldjack]

I don't need to speculate! Somebody claiming to be the new covenant and promising the Spirit would certainly lose legitimacy if he needed to write things down for them after this divine measure.

Luke 24:45
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 3 by Realworldjack]

I don't need to speculate! Somebody claiming to be the new covenant and promising the Spirit would certainly lose legitimacy if he needed to write things down for them after this divine measure.

Luke 24:45
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

Is this to say, Jesus had no need to write things down, since he gave them the "spirit" to understand these things? Is this the reason you are giving for Jesus not leaving anything in writing?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Another objection I might raise is that the Jesus as he is portrayed in the gospel tale is no dummy. He was very erudite and a first-class communicator.

Indeed.

Remember also, He was writing on the ground (at the time the woman had been brought to him for adultery, about to be stoned). He was not illiterate.


But He did not have to write down His words and teachings (and consider how such an artifact might be misused by some power-hungry person or religion!) He knew that He would be alive (even after His death and resurrection) to continue to speak and teach people, especially His sheep (whom He said would listen to His voice). While in the flesh, Christ did not teach people by writing letters to them. He taught by speaking (and also by example). He still speaks, as the Spirit.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[postroad]

[Replying to post 5 by Realworldjack]

They claimed the Spirit. Paul claims that the whole of his Gospel was divinely revealed by Jesus himself.

New International Version (NIV)

Paul Called by God
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

If that were so then certainly this superior method of transmission would be no more difficult to accomplish for many than for one and would eliminate any chance for corruption.

The Jews understood the prophecies of the new covenant well enough back then.


Jeremiah 31:33-34 New International Version (NIV)

33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,� declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,�
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.�

Jeremiah 32:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

38 They will be my people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them. 40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

Why do you think Paul was so perturbed about internal divisions?

1 Corinthians 6:1-10 New International Version (NIV)

Lawsuits Among Believers
6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

[Zzyzx]

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Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

One possibility for the lack of writing by Jesus is that he was just one among many wandering preachers or wannabe messiahs of the era (nothing special or noteworthy) BUT was later 'deified' by Paul/Saul and cohorts as the icon of their new splinter group religion from Judaism -- perhaps similar to what was done by Islam, which also splintered from Judaism and made its own icon.

[Jagella]

The new covenant wasn't supposed to be a written code but a ministry of God directly through the Spirit.

Then it seems very strange to me that the new covenant was committed to writing. With a Holy Spirit magically telling everybody about the new covenant, I see no need for books or letters. But since many Christians did write books and letters, I'd expect Jesus to do some writing too.

[Jagella]

.

Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

One possibility for the lack of writing by Jesus is that he was just one among many wandering preachers or wannabe messiahs of the era (nothing special or noteworthy) BUT was later 'deified' by Paul/Saul and cohorts as the icon of their new splinter group religion from Judaism -- perhaps similar to what was done by Islam, which also splintered from Judaism and made its own icon.

Another possibility is that there was no Jesus to write anything. A mythicist view of Jesus explains very well why we don't have anything written by Jesus.