Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

[Jagella]

I think almost all of us can agree that the writer of the Epistle to the Romans, Paul, existed. Obviously a person needs to exist to write an epistle. So if we understand "Paul" to be the person who wrote Romans, then Paul's historicity is assured. (There are historical problems regarding the details of Paul's life, but that's another issue.)

Unfortunately, we have no such luxury with Jesus because we have nothing he may have written. Real-Jesus apologists explain away this lack of evidence telling us that Jesus, like many other people, could have existed without writing anything. And neither should we expect Jesus to have written anything because he was an illiterate country bumpkin, after all. Besides, Jesus believed the world would soon end, so who needs anything written down for posterity?

I disagree with this reasoning. For starters, explaining why we have nothing written by Jesus isn't evidence. It's just an attempted explanation for why we have no such evidence.

Another objection I might raise is that the Jesus as he is portrayed in the gospel tale is no dummy. He was very erudite and a first-class communicator. He could have been literate and able to write, and if he was illiterate, then he could have recruited a literate disciple to write down what he said.

Finally, Jesus believing that the world would end soon is not necessarily a good reason for his not having anything written down. It wouldn't take that long to commit his ideas to written form. And soon after the time Jesus presumably lived, Paul got busy writing about Jesus. A few decades later more Christians wrote of Jesus in the many gospels. So if these Christians saw the necessity for writing about Jesus even though they believed the apocalypse was near, then it's a mystery that Jesus didn't bother to commit anything to writing.

Question for Debate: Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Even though there is already good evidence that He existed.

If I knew Christ still spoke to people today, then I would have to agree with you.

Yes, I am not going to argue with that.

Why would I do that? I never claimed that the writer of the fourth gospel identifies himself as John the apostle. The author identifies as "the disciple Christ loved", and that disciple is shown to be one of the twelve, present at the last supper, and therefore, an eyewitness.

Since you are either unable or unwilling to cite that passage, then I must conclude that there is no such passage. We do not know who wrote John or any of the other gospels.

You are correct, there is no such passage Jagella. I never stated that there was such a passage. I stated just what the gospel states: that the author is "the disciple Christ loved". That disciple was one of the twelve, making the disciple Christ loved an eyewitness.

The greek word is "phone"

LOL--Tam, there is no Greek word "phone." But I think you may be referring to the pronunciation. φωνῆς is pronounced "phone-ace" with the accent on the second syllable.

Yes, the transliteration of the greek word into english is 'phone' (with accents over the 'o' and 'e', so that it is pronounced fo-nay). I am not sure how to put the accents over the letters, but I figured that would be clear if anyone clicked on the supporting link.

The word does not mean rumor...

The INT translates φωνῆς as "rumor" in Acts 2:6.

The INT might translate it as such, but the word does not mean rumor. I provided a supporting link so that you could see the meaning of the word, yourself. I also supplied the context of the event at Acts 2:6.

So you don't bother reading the New Testament?

I have read the NT.

But I am not sure what your point is.

I'm just wondering why you say you need no document yet read the documents of the New Testament.

That is not really what I said. I said we did not need letters from Christ (especially if He is alive). We also already have gospels that document His words and deeds from when He was a man.

And where is your evidence that the apostles (including Paul) wrote that letter?

Nobody knows who wrote THE EPISTLES of JESUS CHRIST and ABGARUS KING of EDESSA, but it's supposed to be Christ and Abgarus.

So there is no evidence for what I asked then.

Second, there is not much information in your link. So how are you so sure that it is a forgery?

That epistle probably is a forgery although a very old one.

Okay, but that did not really answer my question.






Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 61 by tam]

That would depend upon the book (or letter) and its contents. And if the contents do not match up with what we know of that person, then that would be cause for suspicion (although people and their views can change).

Now apply that to the Book of Revelation. What do we know about its author, that we already know prior to picking up that book? Who is the author?

Apply it how to the book of revelation, Rik? What do you know about the author that is contradicted by the content of the book of revelation?

What evidence do you have to suspect the named author lied about his identity?



Peace again to you.

I did not ask what is contradicted. I asked what do we know about the author of the BoR, prior to opening up the book - ya know, to line up with what you said here
"That would depend upon the book (or letter) and its contents. And if the contents do not match up with what we know of that person, then that would be cause for suspicion (although people and their views can change)."

[FWI]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Why do we have no writings from Jesus?

There actually appears to be a letter, where the Christ responded to a request from the King of Edessa (a region in upper Mesopotamia). Of course, the controversy behind this letter and response by the Christ is alive and well. But, controversy doesn't determine the truth or falsehood of a situation. However, what seems to be a point of interest is that Eusebius of Caesarea, a Christian historian, claims to have read the correspondence.


Also, in 2 Corinthians 3:1-3, Paul implies that all who follow the "true ways" of the Christ are "individual letters" from the Christ. This is shown by their relationship with the Son of God, according to the way they lead their lives and the examples, which are put forth by them.


Therefore, even today, the Christ is attempting to communicate to the masses through His chosen servants…

[PinSeeker]

You call a father ordering his son to die "pièce de résistance"? It's no wonder Christianity has resulted in so much violence and death. What you've posted here is proof that Christian beliefs inspire killing.

That's quite the twisted way of seeing things. I call giving yourself for the good -- in this case, salvation -- of others the most selfless act possible.

Further, I think your response illustrates why there's so much evil (and all the ways in which that evil manifests itself) in this world. Thank God one day there will be no more of that.

OK, so you do want documents written by Jesus.

No, I said it might be kind of cool to have something actually written of his hand, but there's no need. Regarding what I want, I said I want the Word of God... which we have --the Bible. There's no need for anything else.

And actually, I'll go further than that. If we had an actual document written by Jesus, there would be a bunch of folks idolizing that document and worshiping it instead of the real thing. And we know (or at least some of us do) how God and Jesus condemned idolatry all through His Word, So actually, I'm glad we don't have anything actually written by His hand.

Sorry, but there are none.

Yeah, count me happy about that. No need to "apologize." Except maybe for being so divisive and hateful -- and hate-inspiring, to many. But I get it, you know... a tiger can't change his stripes.