A Universe from Nothing…

[FWI]

The zero-energy universe theory originated in 1973, when Edward Tryon proposed, in the journal Nature that the universe emerged from a large-scale quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, resulting in its positive mass-energy being exactly balanced by its negative gravitational potential and certain famous atheists have used this theory to claim that the universe we live in, came from nothing. I, for one, disagree and suggest that this is impossible.

So, what do you say about the claim that our universe came from nothing?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by FWI]

Before there was a physical universe there was a prime force which started it. A cause of which the universe is the effect. John wrote in the beginning was the word , logos. reasoning mind, Causing the immaterial to became material., analogous to light becoming sugar through photosynthesis. How could the original light have been generated? There has to be some kind of original give and take.

[Jagella]

So, what do you say about the claim that our universe came from nothing?

To say that the universe "came from nothing" does seem to defy common sense. Empirically we experience things coming from something rather than nothing. However, the big bang was not a "common" event, and therefore common sense doesn't apply well. As far as I know nobody has ever demonstrated that something cannot come from nothing. So I think a "universe from nothing" is very possible.

[Filthy Tugboat]

[Replying to post 2 by dio9]

Light doesn't become sugar. Light provides the energy to convert water and carbon dioxide to make sugar. So God obviously didn't create the universe, he used the spaghetti monsters energy to convert meat into balls.

[Filthy Tugboat]

The zero-energy universe theory originated in 1973, when Edward Tryon proposed, in the journal Nature that the universe emerged from a large-scale quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, resulting in its positive mass-energy being exactly balanced by its negative gravitational potential and certain famous atheists have used this theory to claim that the universe we live in, came from nothing. I, for one, disagree and suggest that this is impossible.

So, what do you say about the claim that our universe came from nothing?

To my knowledge, atheists are not the only proponents of the theory, others just attribute it to God, I believe they still insist that God created the universe from nothing. Even the catholic church has indicated that the big bang may well have been how God created the universe.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 3 by Jagella]

So I think a "universe from nothing" is very possible.

This is an interesting response. You have admitted that from an empirically perspective that: from nothing, comes nothing. Yet, you also seem to accept that something can possibly come from nothing. It seems that you are taking both sides of the topic here. Can this be because you just can't acknowledge that empirical science is correct?

It would be helpful if you could explain how material objects and life can come from nothing.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 5 by Filthy Tugboat]

To my knowledge, atheists are not the only proponents of the theory, others just attribute it to God, I believe they still insist that God created the universe from nothing. Even the catholic church has indicated that the big bang may well have been how God created the universe.

There is a huge difference between believing that our universe came to be from nothing and the belief that it was created by a Supreme intelligence. Even, if it would be true that God used a type of "big bang" to bring about our universe, there would need to be "space" to begin with and then the required minerals to bring about the physical spheres that would come about. Yet, this would be just the beginning! We should ask: How did our universe become a closed system? If it really is one…How did life come into existence and so forth…There is far too much order and intelligence involved to even consider the idea of these realities coming from nothing.

But, even if you don't believe in God, real science makes it clear that the premise of something coming from nothing is beyond common sense and not logically sound.

“Humanity will find within itself the power to live for virtue even without believing in immortality. It will find it in love for freedom, equality, for fraternity."

If, this were true…Then, why do humans die? The laws of nature tells us that the earth will eventually be no more…Thankfully, God will recreate it again.

[Filthy Tugboat]

[Replying to post 5 by Filthy Tugboat]

To my knowledge, atheists are not the only proponents of the theory, others just attribute it to God, I believe they still insist that God created the universe from nothing. Even the catholic church has indicated that the big bang may well have been how God created the universe.

There is a huge difference between believing that our universe came to be from nothing and the belief that it was created by a Supreme intelligence. Even, if it would be true that God used a type of "big bang" to bring about our universe, there would need to be "space" to begin with and then the required minerals to bring about the physical spheres that would come about. Yet, this would be just the beginning! We should ask: How did our universe become a closed system? If it really is one…How did life come into existence and so forth…There is far too much order and intelligence involved to even consider the idea of these realities coming from nothing.

I thought God was all powerful and able to do anything? Why would God need there to be "space" to begin with? Why the required minerals? Could God not make a closed system? Or life? I am very confused, this is not the common conception of God.

But, even if you don't believe in God, real science makes it clear that the premise of something coming from nothing is beyond common sense and not logically sound.

This is untrue as "real science," in as well as it has been described here, did propose these things.

“Humanity will find within itself the power to live for virtue even without believing in immortality. It will find it in love for freedom, equality, for fraternity."

If, this were true…Then, why do humans die? The laws of nature tells us that the earth will eventually be no more…Thankfully, God will recreate it again.

This doesn't make any sense, why would humans finding the power to live for virtue in freedom, equality and fraternity make them immortal? I think you confused the quote for it's exact opposite.

[Kenisaw]

The zero-energy universe theory originated in 1973, when Edward Tryon proposed, in the journal Nature that the universe emerged from a large-scale quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, resulting in its positive mass-energy being exactly balanced by its negative gravitational potential and certain famous atheists have used this theory to claim that the universe we live in, came from nothing. I, for one, disagree and suggest that this is impossible.

So, what do you say about the claim that our universe came from nothing?

Casimir Effect. Lamb Shift. There's something going on with stuff popping in and out of existence. Quantum uncertainty actually requires that stuff like that goes on. It happens all the time, and has been repeatedly confirmed via experiments. The question of why this happens is one of the big unanswered questions.

The zero sum universe part of the theory is a confirmed thing. The net energy of the universe is zero. The net spin is zero. The net charge is zero. It's like 1+1+1+1-1-1-1-1=0, only on a colossal scale. The universe is nothing broken up into lots of little offsetting pieces.

But does that mean that the universe comes from nothing? No one knows for sure. The "singularity" at the beginning of the Big Bang is just a fancy way of saying "No idea what went on here". We know the universe is expanding, we know the universe has zero total energy. It's what we don't know based on those things that is driving some of the current research...

[FWI]

[Replying to post 8 by Filthy Tugboat]

I thought God was all powerful and able to do anything? Why would God need there to be "space" to begin with? Why the required minerals? Could God not make a closed system? Or life? I am very confused, this is not the common conception of God.

Firstly, you are correct that God is all powerful and able to do anything. However, God's created beings (celestial and human), which aren't and they have limits to their understandings of the essence of God…Thus, a proper order of things was used so that the necessary wisdom, given to each group, would sustain them in their quest for the knowledge of why they exist.

Therefore, space is a rudimentary first step. Since, celestial and humans beings are limited in understandings, they/we cannot go back any further than the reality that God is infinite or is not confined by space. But, it is understood that created life is confined by space or at the least, physical life is…Without space, no celestial beings or physical life could exist.

As far as, minerals are concerned: They are the building blocks of certain types of creativity. They can be manipulated into varies shapes and forms. They can be used to make life interesting, by bringing about new and reshaping older physical objects.

This is untrue as "real science," in as well as it has been described here, did propose these things.

There are four scientific meanings of "nothing," the following is one of them.

Whatever you're left with when you take away the entire Universe and the laws governing it.

At last, you can conceive of removing everything, including space, time and the rules that govern any sort of particles or quanta of energy. This creates a type of "nothing" that physicists have no definition for. This goes beyond "nothing" as it exists in the Universe, instead realizing some sort of philosophical, absolute nothingness. But in the context of physics, we cannot make sense of this sort of nothingness. We'd have to assume that there is such a thing as a state outside of space and time, where you can have the emergence of space and time from this hypothesized state of true nothingness. But is that possible? How does space and time emerge at a particular location, when there's no such thing as space? How can you create the beginning of time if there's no concept of something like "before" without time already existing? And where, then, would the rules governing particles and their interactions arise from? Does this final definition of "nothing" even mean anything at all, or is it just a logical construct with no physical meaning of its own?

This doesn't make any sense, why would humans finding the power to live for virtue in freedom, equality and fraternity make them immortal? I think you confused the quote for it's exact opposite.

Maybe, Maybe not! Your statement is implying that humanity will find within itself the power to live for virtue, without believing in immortality. The validity of this statement can only be determined by how an individual defines "virtue" or moral excellence and righteousness. However, I didn't claim that: to have moral excellence and righteousness in freedom, equality and fraternity would lead to immortality…The comment also seems to imply that humans should accept the finality of physical life to be the end of existence. The problem is that the vast majority of humans don't believe such a statement.

Hence, I implied: If an individual reaches a level of moral excellence and righteousness; why do they die?

So, what are the rules for moral excellence and righteousness (virtue) and who determines them?