Genetics and Adam and Eve

[amortalman]

I began to wonder about this after reading a post by rikuoamero wherein he made mention of it. It sounded like a worthy subject to explore.

So the question for debate is:

Does genetics disprove a literal Adam and Eve?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 67 by alexxcJRO]

But do you want me to give you credit in my paper. Was what I asked?

[Clownboat]

Not true in fact most older cultures have tales of global flood from around the world.

Another statement that doesn't seem thought out.

All of these cultures that have flood myths would not have survived the global flood he is attempting to make a case for, due to them being killed by said flood and not around to invent a flood tale of their own.

His attempted argument is self defeating.

What makes more sense is that floods happen and cultures tend to be near water. Thus we have many flood stories from around the world that actually happened. A global flood has no evidence however and pointing to hundreds of differing flood tales do not justify a single global event.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 67 by alexxcJRO]

But do you want me to give you credit in my paper. Was what I asked?

Ignoring my entire post and boring with me with irrelevant nonsense.


It does not look good for you.

You can put in the paper how i showed your deceptions, lies, misrepresentations, the way you changed your claims and moved the goal post, how you refused to adress my main objection over and over again.

[H.sapiens]

I began to wonder about this after reading a post by rikuoamero wherein he made mention of it. It sounded like a worthy subject to explore.

So the question for debate is:

Does genetics disprove a literal Adam and Eve?

The answer is yes and it is hardly worth further exploration.

[Still small]

Not true in fact most older cultures have tales of global flood from around the world.

Another statement that doesn't seem thought out.

All of these cultures that have flood myths would not have survived the global flood he is attempting to make a case for, due to them being killed by said flood and not around to invent a flood tale of their own.

His attempted argument is self defeating.

This would be a good point . . . . . except if these ‘older cultures’ are descendants of Noah and are passing down ‘bits and pieces’ of an event that their ancestors experienced, being consistent with the Noahic Flood. These descendants were subsequently scattered abroad some 340-400 years later along with a ‘confusion of the language’ which would contribute to minor variances in the stories.

Have a good day!
Still small

[Clownboat]

Not true in fact most older cultures have tales of global flood from around the world.

Another statement that doesn't seem thought out.

All of these cultures that have flood myths would not have survived the global flood he is attempting to make a case for, due to them being killed by said flood and not around to invent a flood tale of their own.

His attempted argument is self defeating.

This would be a good point . . . . . except if these ‘older cultures’ are descendants of Noah and are passing down ‘bits and pieces’ of an event that their ancestors experienced, being consistent with the Noahic Flood. These descendants were subsequently scattered abroad some 340-400 years later along with a ‘confusion of the language’ which would contribute to minor variances in the stories.

Have a good day!
Still small

Very few have a common theme within these flood myths.
Therefore it is not logical that all the flood myths you allude to all stem from the same event. Especially if we want to claim that a god was behind the event and did this for a purpose.

What next, only the ancient Hebrews god the myth correct? Oh come now...

Support:
Scandinavian:
Oden, Vili, and Ve fought and slew the great ice giant Ymir, and icy water from his wounds drowned most of the Rime Giants. The giant Bergelmir escaped, with his wife and children, on a boat made from a hollowed tree trunk. From them rose the race of frost ogres. Ymir's body became the world we live on. His blood became the oceans.

Celtic:
Heaven and Earth were great giants, and Heaven lay upon the Earth so that their children were crowded between them, and the children and their mother were unhappy in the darkness. The boldest of the sons led his brothers in cutting up Heaven into many pieces. From his skull they made the firmament. His spilling blood caused a great flood which killed all humans except a single pair, who were saved in a ship made by a beneficent Titan....

Lithuanian:
From his heavenly window, the supreme god Pramzimas saw nothing but war and injustice among mankind. He sent two giants, Wandu and Wejas (water and wind), to destroy earth. After twenty days and nights, little was left. Pramzimas looked to see the progress. He happened to be eating nuts at the time, and he threw down the shells. One happened to land on the peak of the tallest mountain, where some people and animals had sought refuge. Everybody climbed in and survived the flood floating in the nutshell....

Transylvanian Gypsy:
Men once lived forever and knew no troubles. The earth brought forth fine fruits, flesh grew on trees, and milk and wine flowed in many rivers. One day, and old man came to the country and asked for a night's lodging, which a couple gave him in their cottage. When he departed the next day, he said he would return in nine days. He gave his host a small fish in a vessel and said he would reward the host if he did not eat the fish but returned it then. The wife thought the fish must be exceptionally good to eat, but the husband said he had promised the old man to keep it and made the woman swear not to eat it. After two days of thinking about it, though, the wife yielded to temptation and threw the fish on the hot coals. Immediately, she was struck dead by lightning, and it began to rain....

Turkey:
Iskender-Iulcarni (Alexander the Great), in the course of his conquests, demanded tribute from Katife, Queen of Smyrna. She refused insultingly and threatened to drown the king if he persisted. Enraged at her insolence, the conqueror determined to punish the queen by drowning her in a great flood. He employed Moslem and infidel workmen to make a strait of the Bosphorus, paying the infidel workmen one-fifth as much as the Moslems got....

Persian:
In early times, the earth was full of malign creatures fashioned by the evil Ahriman. The angel Tistar (the star Sirius) descended three times, in the form of man, horse, and bull respectively, causing ten days and nights of rain each time. Each rain drop became as big as a bowl, and the water rose the height of a man over the whole earth. The first flood drowned the creatures, but the dead noxious creatures went into holes in the earth. Before returning to cause the second flood, Tistar, in the form of a white horse, battled the demon Apaosha, who took the form of a black horse....

Cameroon:
As a girl was grinding flour, a goat came to lick it. She first drove it away, but when it came back, she allowed it to lick as much as it could. In return for the kindness, the goat told her there will be a flood that day and advised her and her brother to run elsewhere immediately. They escaped with a few belongings and looked back to see water covering their village. After the flood, they lived on their own for many years, unable to find mates. The goat reappeared and said they could marry themselves, but they would have to put a hoe-handle and a clay pot with a broken bottom on their roof to signify that they are relatives.

Kwaya:
The ocean was once enclosed in a small pot kept by a man and his wife under the roof of their hut to fill their larger pots. The man told his daughter-in-law never to touch it because it contained their sacred ancestors. But she grew curious and touched it. It shattered, and the resulting flood drowned everything.

Pygmy:
Chameleon heard a strange noise, like water running, in a tree, but at that time there was no water in the world. He cut open the trunk, and water came out in a great flood that spread all over the earth. The first human couple emerged with the water.

And many more.

Oral tradition is one thing, but what you are attempting to claim is way to far fetched IMO.

It's not realistic to go from the Noah story to this for example:
Ababua (northern Congo):
An old woman hoarded water and killed men who sought it. The hero Mba succeeded in killing the woman. Upon her death, the water flowed in such quantities that it flooded everything. Mba was washed away and landed in the top of a tree.

Your best support for the flood story you desire to be true it so point to differing flood myths and pretend that there is some common theme and it just so happens that your preferred religious book just happened to get the details correct compared to the competing myths.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to alexxcJRO]

Yes, I would give you credit for pointing out my mistake and helping realize.

1st
How there were two different ways to date the mutations that were being found in the mtDNA. One method using the pedigree and generations to date the the differences in mutations. And the phylogenetic that uses usually computer generated phylogenetic trees based on archeology.

The only method of dating that actually uses only genetic material to date the mutation rate is the pedigree method. Brenna M. Henn Christopher R. Gignoux Marcus W. Feldman Joanna L. Mountain documented how all pedigree dating methods give the same results as Jeanson.

2nd
That not just some of the homogenic mutations should not be found in the mtDNA genome but there should be no mtDNA mutations in the genome in order mutations per year to be on the order of what Genet predicts it to be. So people that try to discredit Jeanson's work are not saying that some of the 63 homogenic mutations are false readings but they are trying to say that they are all false readings. That seems more than far fetched to me. There would have to be some documented evidence indicating that all of the 63 homogenic mutations are false readings.

In fact it would take 1 mutation reading in 100,000 pedigrees to yield anything close to Genet's value of 1.665 x 10-8 substitutions per year.

1/100000 =1 x 10-5 / 25.5 = 3.92 x 10-7 substitutions /year

So yes I was wrong and thank you for correcting me because this proof is much better than the one I was formulating.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 71 by H.sapiens]

And you are basing this on what?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 73 by Clownboat]

I am not a big fan of this argument but here you go knock yourself out.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/ ... d-legends/

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 73 by Clownboat]

I am not a big fan of this argument but here you go knock yourself out.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/ ... d-legends/

Please provide the parts you find most compelling if any.
Then let me know the 'statement of faith for your source' you have provided so I can see if they are trustworthy and unbiased.

Do you not have 'your own' thoughts on the matter? If so, I would love to hear them. Specifically, how can all the flood myths spawn from one myth when they vary so much? Please see some of the examples that I have provided (not just linked to and then ask you to do my work for me).