Genetics and Adam and Eve

[amortalman]

I began to wonder about this after reading a post by rikuoamero wherein he made mention of it. It sounded like a worthy subject to explore.

So the question for debate is:

Does genetics disprove a literal Adam and Eve?

[alexxcJRO]

However, your words are not lost on the rest of us I trust and your analogy speaks volumes. Basically, that your rebuttal is exactly as trustworthy as John's claim that he communes with demons.

Firstly,

Was just trying to mirror him and force him to see how ridiculous he sounds.

Secondly,

Was trying to point to him how weak his ramblings are as evidence because one can come just as easily came and say something contradictory or mutually exclusive.

This will likely be read as an attack by John.

I don't believe you spoke with an invisible flying pink unicorn and I don't believe that John communes with demons. Do you feel like I attacked you though? (Asking rhetorically).

I don't feel like you attacked me. (Answering rhetorically)

I dare him to send his demon to me.

Hey demon, demon your just a non-existent piece of …. , non-existent p...y with knowledge of an average moron. I dare you to come.

I am waiting to be wowed, scared or worse.

I am 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % nothing, nada, zilch will happen.

[John Human]

However, your words are not lost on the rest of us I trust and your analogy speaks volumes. Basically, that your rebuttal is exactly as trustworthy as John's claim that he communes with demons.

Firstly,

Was just trying to mirror him and force him to see how ridiculous he sounds.

Secondly,

Was trying to point to him how weak his ramblings are as evidence because one can come just as easily came and say something contradictory or mutually exclusive.

This will likely be read as an attack by John.

I don't believe you spoke with an invisible flying pink unicorn and I don't believe that John communes with demons. Do you feel like I attacked you though? (Asking rhetorically).

I don't feel like you attacked me. (Answering rhetorically)

I dare him to send his demon to me.

Hey demon, demon your just a non-existent piece of …. , non-existent p...y with knowledge of an average moron. I dare you to come.

I am waiting to be wowed, scared or worse.

I am 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % nothing, nada, zilch will happen.

There are limitations on what demons can do without losing something of the original goodness of their nature. I doubt that Ancient Demon is inclined to react to taunts.

Ancient Demon will act:
"The man is of an inclination to band together with others to force any discussion of demons off the forum. The man has the motive of expressing the reductionist-materialist scientific view as the only acceptable way to think. Any discussion of things outside this way of thinking is not allowed. This forum is a danger to people who depend on others accepting this way of thinking."

[Clownboat]

However, your words are not lost on the rest of us I trust and your analogy speaks volumes. Basically, that your rebuttal is exactly as trustworthy as John's claim that he communes with demons.

Firstly,

Was just trying to mirror him and force him to see how ridiculous he sounds.

Secondly,

Was trying to point to him how weak his ramblings are as evidence because one can come just as easily came and say something contradictory or mutually exclusive.

This was obvious to me and you succeeded IMO.

I don't feel like you attacked me.

I knew you wouldn't, thus why I asked rhetorically.

I dare him to send his demon to me.

Hey demon, demon your just a non-existent piece of …. , non-existent p...y with knowledge of an average moron. I dare you to come.

I am waiting to be wowed, scared or worse.

I am 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % nothing, nada, zilch will happen.

It posts like a human and not like a many thousands of year old being, so I also trust that you are safe.
I think I know why this ancient demon's posts seem so human in nature...

[Clownboat]

However, your words are not lost on the rest of us I trust and your analogy speaks volumes. Basically, that your rebuttal is exactly as trustworthy as John's claim that he communes with demons.

Firstly,

Was just trying to mirror him and force him to see how ridiculous he sounds.

Secondly,

Was trying to point to him how weak his ramblings are as evidence because one can come just as easily came and say something contradictory or mutually exclusive.

This will likely be read as an attack by John.

I don't believe you spoke with an invisible flying pink unicorn and I don't believe that John communes with demons. Do you feel like I attacked you though? (Asking rhetorically).

I don't feel like you attacked me. (Answering rhetorically)

I dare him to send his demon to me.

Hey demon, demon your just a non-existent piece of …. , non-existent p...y with knowledge of an average moron. I dare you to come.

I am waiting to be wowed, scared or worse.

I am 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % nothing, nada, zilch will happen.

There are limitations on what demons can do without losing something of the original goodness of their nature. I doubt that Ancient Demon is inclined to react to taunts.

This is what I would have expected you to say if you were defending a non-existent entity.
Had you responded with: "You asked for it". Now that would not have been expected!

I think your demon is all too human, but he is welcome to change my mind. The idea of ancient demons does sound nifty afterall, so I welcome it.

[otseng]

"The man is of an inclination to band together with others to force any discussion of demons off the forum. The man has the motive of expressing the reductionist-materialist scientific view as the only acceptable way to think. Any discussion of things outside this way of thinking is not allowed. This forum is a danger to people who depend on others accepting this way of thinking."

Moderator Comment

The forum does not dictate what are acceptable ways of thinking. Likewise, you cannot dictate how others should think. Also, please cease from mischaracterizing the forum.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[alexxcJRO]

There are limitations on what demons can do without losing something of the original goodness of their nature. I doubt that Ancient Demon is inclined to react to taunts.

Ancient Demon will act:
"The man is of an inclination to band together with others to force any discussion of demons off the forum. The man has the motive of expressing the reductionist-materialist scientific view as the only acceptable way to think. Any discussion of things outside this way of thinking is not allowed. This forum is a danger to people who depend on others accepting this way of thinking."

So the usual “nothing will happen cuz’ of some weak reason�.

Disappointed.

I wanted something interesting to happen.

Q: Can you tell him to come, pay me a friendly visit and have a chat?(him being benevolent)

Q: Can this demon tell you what I ate this morning before posting?

Observation: I made a pic (timestamped) with what I ate before I posted this response.

[John Human]

There are limitations on what demons can do without losing something of the original goodness of their nature. I doubt that Ancient Demon is inclined to react to taunts.

Ancient Demon will act:
"The man is of an inclination to band together with others to force any discussion of demons off the forum. The man has the motive of expressing the reductionist-materialist scientific view as the only acceptable way to think. Any discussion of things outside this way of thinking is not allowed. This forum is a danger to people who depend on others accepting this way of thinking."

So the usual “nothing will happen cuz’ of some weak reason�.

Disappointed.

I wanted something interesting to happen.

Q: Can you tell him to come, pay me a friendly visit and have a chat?(him being benevolent)

Q: Can this demon tell you what I ate this morning before posting?

Observation: I made a pic (timestamped) with what I ate before I posted this response.

I don't know why the demon would know what you ate this morning, but it could probably read your thoughts and tell you -- an intriguing potential test.

However, I wouldn't presume to tell the demon to visit you; it (not "he") is not my servant.

With that said, seeing that you have made it clear that you would welcome a visit, Ancient Demon might do so, if it hasn't already: A while ago, after my extended reply on Jagella's thread, Ancient Demon said that it would be visiting other people for a while.

[rikuoamero]

There are limitations on what demons can do without losing something of the original goodness of their nature. I doubt that Ancient Demon is inclined to react to taunts.

Ancient Demon will act:
"The man is of an inclination to band together with others to force any discussion of demons off the forum. The man has the motive of expressing the reductionist-materialist scientific view as the only acceptable way to think. Any discussion of things outside this way of thinking is not allowed. This forum is a danger to people who depend on others accepting this way of thinking."

So the usual “nothing will happen cuz’ of some weak reason�.

Disappointed.

I wanted something interesting to happen.

Q: Can you tell him to come, pay me a friendly visit and have a chat?(him being benevolent)

Q: Can this demon tell you what I ate this morning before posting?

Observation: I made a pic (timestamped) with what I ate before I posted this response.

I don't know why the demon would know what you ate this morning, but it could probably read your thoughts and tell you -- an intriguing potential test.

However, I wouldn't presume to tell the demon to visit you; it (not "he") is not my servant.

With that said, seeing that you have made it clear that you would welcome a visit, Ancient Demon might do so, if it hasn't already: A while ago, after my extended reply on Jagella's thread, Ancient Demon said that it would be visiting other people for a while.

Ooh I hope I'm one of them. Any idea of a timeframe for these visits?

[alexxcJRO]

don't know why the demon would know what you ate this morning, but it could probably read your thoughts and tell you -- an intriguing potential test.

Please don't bore me with potential (future) tests. I am talking of actual tests, present reality not future potentiality.
So please ask him to tell you what I ate this morning before posting.
Waiting for the answer.

However, I wouldn't presume to tell the demon to visit you; it (not "he") is not my servant.
With that said, seeing that you have made it clear that you would welcome a visit, Ancient Demon might do so, if it hasn't already: A while ago, after my extended reply on Jagella's thread, Ancient Demon said that it would be visiting other people for a while.

Again don't bore me with deflections and “might visit�, potential (future) visits.
So please ask him to visit me. (no visits so far)
Waiting for the visit.

Prediction: You will deflect further. Ultimately creating a unfalsifiable hypothesis.

[John Bauer]

This is my point regarding falsification.

You could've just said, "I agree" (that science cannot tell us about Adam and Eve).

Theology is, in my view, the art of making something up and declaring it to be true. After all, let's take original sin for example. [...] If one is not doing or using science, how is this a claim that can be verified? How can we check to see if we humans do indeed have this original sin? Or is it just that one declares all humans to have original sin, that it is something transmitted, never mind actually showing it to be true, just declare it true?

There are so many weasel words in here that I scarcely know where or how to begin responding. But I shall try. Let's start with this: What does the expression "making something up" mean? Do you mean to suggest that if something cannot be scientifically verified then it is a fiction? Has no one explained to you that the verificationist principle is self-refuting nonsense?

"How is this a claim that can be verified?" you asked. That depends upon identifying the species of claim. Obviously we will want to be concerned for categorical relevance. There are ethical claims, logical claims, historical claims, autobiographical claims, mathematical claims, theological claims, empirical claims, and on and on. We cannot answer how to verify a claim apart from establishing what species of claim it is, because we want to avoid committing a fallacious category error.

As regards original sin we are clearly dealing with the category of theology, and that species of claim is verified biblically (divine revelation).

Donald Trump is the current federal head of the United States. This is not a theological claim.

Correct.

On the other hand, "Donald Trump is the federal head of all mankind in covenant relationship with God" would be a theological claim. See, it's the God stuff that makes it theological—by definition. And everything said about Adam and Eve in the Bible is saturated with God stuff (christological redemptive history).

Am I "in Christ" or "in Adam" simply because some anonymous fellows wrote down that phrase a couple thousand years ago?

No, you are either "in Adam" or "in Christ" because God chose to have a covenant relationship with mankind through one of two federal heads. And we know this because, yes, some blokes explained it in writing a couple thousand years ago (revelational epistemology).

I'd like for you to answer me this. One can get a PhD in, say, genetics. [...] One can get a PhD in theology—studying what?

Comparing genetics and theology commits the fallacy of faulty analogy. A slightly more accurate comparison would be biology and theology. Both biology and theology can be broken down to a number of subdisciplines. You can get a PhD in biology, but studying what? There is cell and molecular biology, there is marine biology, there is ecology, behavior and evolution, there is neurobiology, etc. Students have to choose a specific area in the biological sciences to anchor their studies. Same with a PhD in theology.

References: Boston University, "PhD in Biology," and GradSchools.com, "Biology PhD Programs" (accessed June 16, 2019).

-- John M. Bauer