God and gods

[historia]

I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Questions for debate: Is this quote accurate? Is the difference between the concept of God and the concept of gods simply a difference in number (one vs. many)? When atheists and skeptics combine the two into the short-hand "God(s)," are they making a category error?

[Jagella]

I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Questions for debate: Is this quote accurate? Is the difference between the concept of God and the concept of gods simply a difference in number (one vs. many)? When atheists and skeptics combine the two into the short-hand "God(s)," are they making a category error?

If you take Roberts' quotation too literally, then it's wrong. Not believing in any particular gods does not make the doubter an atheist as long as the doubter believes in at least one other god. However, the main point of what Roberts is saying is valid. The reasons Christians, for example, doubt any gods except their own gods are probably very similar to why atheists doubt the Christian god. Christians then are inconsistent in what gods they believe in and which gods they don't believe in.

[JehovahsWitness]

I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Questions for debate: Is this quote accurate? Is the difference between the concept of God and the concept of gods simply a difference in number (one vs. many)? When atheists and skeptics combine the two into the short-hand "God(s)," are they making a category error?

Questions for debate: Is this quote accurate?

• Yes

Is the difference between the concept of God and the concept of gods simply a difference in number (one vs. many)?

• Yes one is plural and one is singular. The term god(s) is too generic to carry much significance

When atheists and skeptics combine the two into the short-hand "God(s)," are they making a category error?

• I'm not sure I understand the question but gods include a god; but no, I don't think it's an erroneous statement.

JW

[bjs]

[Replying to post 2 by JJ50]


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[bjs]

However, the main point of what Roberts is saying is valid. The reasons Christians, for example, doubt any gods except their own gods are probably very similar to why atheists doubt the Christian god.

This might be true of classical atheism, but I don’t think that it is true of modern or “new atheism.�

Classical atheism is the belief or doctrine that there is no God. The classical atheist has come to a specific and reasoned belief in the non-existence of any kind god, and therefore rejected beliefs that contradict his core doctrine. Similarly, a Christian (or any monotheist) has come to a specific and reasoned belief there is one and only one genuine God, and therefore rejected beliefs that contradict his core doctrine.

Modern or new atheism lack belief in all gods. This is not a core belief like the classical atheist, but a lack of a core belief about God. The new atheist has not rejected the existence of God because he has found some greater truth, but claims to only lack belief because of insufficient evidence.

Roberts’ statement seems to come from a lack of belief. That is not comparable to any of the modern world religions, which are all built on the presence of a positive belief as opposed to a lack of belief.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

I tend to disagree. I would compare this to an uninjured man saying to a man who has lost his arm, “We are both amputees. I have just lost one less arm than you.�

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 6 by bjs]

Hmmm... maybe


.. I see your point, and its true a lot of atheists I have spoken to are not atheists as a result of a reasoned analysis of the evidence, but rather a fall back position of "nothingness" born of intellectual laziness, but that said the quote presumes I believe, on someone having thought things through no matter how misguded they may be and come to what they believe to be a reasonable conclusion.

In that it is stating the obvious... I only wonder why it should be considered quotable.


JW

[Zzyzx]

.
Monotheists often become emotional when their favorite 'god' is referred to as just one of thousands proposed and worshiped. Perhaps that is insulting to those who have been indoctrinated to think that their 'god' is something special -- often rejecting all others as 'false gods'.

The OP quote is nonsensical but does point out the irony of believing tales about one 'god' and rejecting tales about another -- when evidence of truth and accuracy is absent in both cases.

[Jagella]

This might be true of classical atheism, but I don’t think that it is true of modern or “new atheism.�

I was not aware of such a distinction.

Classical atheism is the belief or doctrine that there is no God. The classical atheist has come to a specific and reasoned belief in the non-existence of any kind god, and therefore rejected beliefs that contradict his core doctrine.

In this case I'm not a classical atheist. To say that I believe there are no gods is as silly as to say I believe there are no fairies. My not believing in gods or fairies is not belief. It is Orwellian to call an absence of belief a belief.

Similarly, a Christian (or any monotheist) has come to a specific and reasoned belief there is one and only one genuine God, and therefore rejected beliefs that contradict his core doctrine.

Actually, Christians are polytheists believing in three gods, but that's another issue. Also, most Christians do not arrive at their beliefs via reason or evidence but base their beliefs in tradition, social pressure (indoctrination), and hope for life beyond the grave.

Modern or new atheism lack belief in all gods. This is not a core belief like the classical atheist, but a lack of a core belief about God. The new atheist has not rejected the existence of God because he has found some greater truth, but claims to only lack belief because of insufficient evidence.

This is more like it! This understanding of atheism, ironically, is the definition that Christians taught me. As a boy the nuns told us that atheists are people who don't believe in God(s). Heck, I know some atheists who don't even know they are atheists. The idea of gods to them is irrelevant.

Roberts’ statement seems to come from a lack of belief. That is not comparable to any of the modern world religions, which are all built on the presence of a positive belief as opposed to a lack of belief.

Maybe. Would you say most Christians simply lack belief in other gods, or do they say those other gods don't exist? I have had Christians tell me that any gods beside their own gods are "false" gods.

[Filthy Tugboat]

I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Questions for debate: Is this quote accurate? Is the difference between the concept of God and the concept of gods simply a difference in number (one vs. many)? When atheists and skeptics combine the two into the short-hand "God(s)," are they making a category error?

As the quote reflects on the individuals conception of the word I think it cannot be a category error. If you propose this to an ancient Greek, they would presume their own pantheon to be the correct understanding and other religious conceptions like pagans for instance to be the form they disbelieve. If you ask a Christians they may imagine the God's not believed in to be the Hindu religious tradition as the religion. It's more or less a thought exercise. Why don't you believe in these other traditions? How does that seem similar to atheists statements regarding all religious faiths? At minimum it may help to bridge a dialogue gap between atheists and theists and otherwise it is a generalised statement on how realistic atheism actually is, even if it is a minority position, everyone agrees with atheists on most propositions of God's.