Is Yahweh so different from Jupiter?

[marco]

Learned Romans refer to Jupiter sometimes with respect and often with a touch of humour. He's the force beyond their lives, the Something that dwarfs the Roman Empire. But what is different from according Jupiter some respect and showing the Christian God some devotion?

Is the important thing the temple that people have in their minds rather than the existence of a super being? In fact, does it matter whether God is or is not?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 59 by marco]

The one I find most ridiculous is the tale of "holy corpses" tossing aside the soil from the graves and toddling off to Jerusalem. Or the tale from 1 Kings: "For the jar of flour was not used up and the jug of oil did not run dry, in keeping with the word of the LORD spoken by Elijah." Ovid has a similar myth about the couple Baucis and Philemon.

Of course it is said that there is nothing so absurd, so ridiculous that Faith cannot credit it. Faith, of course, can move Everest to Antarctica.

It depends on what or who you have faith in. There are two ideas that everyone must have some type faith in.

First is the method creation. Did this universe come from nature? Science cannot describe how this could be the case. So if one believes that this universe is a result of nature they would have to have faith that this is the case. This belief that the universe came from nature has so little scientific support that many physicist are turning to a belief that nothing is real, that everything that we see and touch is either computer generated or random energy.

Belief in a God that has the power to produce a rational universe in which we can observe with our senses seems like a much more reasonable faith than the alternative.

The second is what a person believes about Jesus. Many scholars across the centuries have studied whether Jesus really existed, died and rose again.

Gary Habermas has compiled a list of more than 2,200 sources in French, German, and English in which experts have written on the resurrection from 1975 to the present. He has identified minimal facts that are strongly evidenced and which are regarded as historical by a large majority of scholars, including skeptics. Habermas has 3400 sources in a bibliography from 1975 to the 2012. When Habermas says you can count the guys on one hand who disagree with this it is not very many. They believe Paul is the best source, and 1 Corinthians is one of the most dependable sources. They allow 1 Corinthians and Galatians. Both are on the accepted list.

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.

2. He was buried.

3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.

4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).

5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important proof).

6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.

7. The resurrection was the central message.

8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.

9. The Church was born and grew.

10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.

11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).

12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic).

"Their is no other founder of a major world religion who has miracles reported of him within a generation." Habermas

[marco]

It depends on what or who you have faith in. There are two ideas that everyone must have some type faith in.

No - there are many possibilities and you have outlined two ideas. You rely too much on very simple reasoning to make deductions about matters vastly beyond our present competence. The Big Bang is an idea; it does not explain matter, and the concept of things before is beyond us, as yet. Inventing a giant who made things but who himself wasn't made is the stuff of primitive tribesmen.

They believe Paul is the best source, and 1 Corinthians is one of the most dependable sources. They allow 1 Corinthians and Galatians. Both are on the accepted list.

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.

2. He was buried.

3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.

4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).

These are ordinary events with ordinary explanations. We don't need to involve miracles. This rest is just a summary of claims and perceptions. We have people who say they were abducted by aliens. When we can't figure out a good reason we invariably see ghosts.


Your statements are declarations, weak in themselves, and attach too much credibility to Paul who never saw Jesus.

You have jumped from cosmic origins to wandering preacher, as though the connection was obvious.

[dio9]

Learned Romans refer to Jupiter sometimes with respect and often with a touch of humour. He's the force beyond their lives, the Something that dwarfs the Roman Empire. But what is different from according Jupiter some respect and showing the Christian God some devotion?

Is the important thing the temple that people have in their minds rather than the existence of a super being? In fact, does it matter whether God is or is not?

I say yes it matters. God has always existed in human consciousness.There is nothing we can do about it. Is means is.

[brunumb]

[Replying to brunumb]

Ha! Ha! Ha!

Ok, thanks for the conversation.

I don't understand the amusement. Even in very large molecules, there is only a small number of functional groups that determine the reactions that are possible. Functional groups behave in the same way based on the properties of the atoms that make them up. The complexity of molecules in no way requires them to have been supernaturally designed. They form via the same set of basic chemical processes. No gods necessary.

[marco]

I say yes it matters. God has always existed in human consciousness.There is nothing we can do about it. Is means is.

Dear dio, I do not doubt that deities dignified the ideas of tribespeople. I wonder why any modern proposition should be strengthened by the fact that an Inca sacrificed to a god or that Egyptians wrapped their important people painstakingly for a journey to the afterlife. It may be the mark of a man to theorise: there is nothing to say theories are invariably correct.

From what I have read of Yahweh and Jupiter, they are substantially the same, fictions from the fertile soil of human imagination. Is may mean is (though funnily enough it vanishes in Slavonic languages) but there is a difference between being in reality and being in fiction.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 32 by Hawkins]

The Christianity God needs to hide behind because in the end humans need to be saved by faith in accordance to a covenant between God and men.

That's not a valid reason for the Christian God to hide. Faith is not a virtue. It is just an invented excuse for not having a god who is up front about his existence.

Ironically, it is also a requirement in order to believe in false things.
Via faith, a person can believe in Nessy, or Big Foot and on and on.

Now, I'm not saying that faith cannot lead to a true belief (perhaps there is a Big Foot?), just that it is a requirement to believe in things that are not in evidence (like Big Foot).

Therefore, you seem to be correct, that faith is not a virtue and a god hiding behind faith should be very telling.