What is in the Bible. Do you know?

[Tart]

All too often people just assume they know god, and what Christianity is all about. Before i dived into the scripture i assumed I knew what people thought about God. I assumed I knew what was in the Bible. "Just be a good person, and the rest is legend". In fact, i was so confident in this thought that I knew everything i need to know, and would suggest to people I have read the Bible... That i know everything it's about.

It was the Bible that blew those misconceptions out of the water, and blew my mind.... I consider myself lucky I spent 6 months in solitary confinement, because I actually had the time to read the Bible....

But lets face it, the Bible is HUGE, and many parts are REALLY hard to get through. People give up, people dont read it, and lot of people dont think they even need to read it to understand God... In fact, im skeptical on some people in this forum, that claim they do study the Bible, and have read it, but really havent...


For these reasons I have narrowed down scripture to 3 books (totaling about 75 pages)... If you havent read the scripture, if its very long and you never read anyways, if you dont even think of reading it... Dont be quick to throw it away...

Here is the challenge for all those people... Pick 1 Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John), the Book of Acts, and the Romans Epistle... Read those 3 books and you will have a decent knowledge of Christianity... It is 75 pages...

This topic was sparked by trying to talk to my neighbors, which was suggested to have a Bible study... Read those 3 books, and come back and comment on what your thoughts are on each book...

A topic for debate... What is the inspiration of the authors? What is an explanation for these books? What do you think about each book? (Please be as detailed as possible, like by using quotes, or verses, trying to understand why he author wrote what he did, what was the inspiration, etc...)

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 19 by PinSeeker]

Sure, people can interpret Revelation any way they want, but that doesn't make his or her interpretation the correct one.

So, what criteria do you apply to determine definitively which interpretation is the correct one? How are those criteria applied to arrive at the conclusive decision?

I really don't understand the question as asked. Rather than "interpretation," it's really just an issue of understanding (or lack thereof to a lesser or greater degree).

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 19 by PinSeeker]

Sure, people can interpret Revelation any way they want, but that doesn't make his or her interpretation the correct one.

So, what criteria do you apply to determine definitively which interpretation is the correct one? How are those criteria applied to arrive at the conclusive decision?

I really don't understand the question as asked. Rather than "interpretation," it's really just an issue of understanding (or lack thereof to a lesser or greater degree).

In that case let me ask, what criteria do you apply to determine definitively that your understanding is correct? How are those criteria applied to arrive at the conclusive decision?

[PinSeeker]

...what criteria do you apply to determine definitively that your understanding is correct? How are those criteria applied to arrive at the conclusive decision?

Again, not to be coy in any way, but, well, what "criteria" would you use in coming to a "conclusive decision" regarding anything of great import, substance, and breadth? My answer would probably be very, very similar to yours, if not exactly the same.

[benchwarmer]

...what criteria do you apply to determine definitively that your understanding is correct? How are those criteria applied to arrive at the conclusive decision?

Again, not to be coy in any way, but, well, what "criteria" would you use in coming to a "conclusive decision" regarding anything of great import, substance, and breadth? My answer would probably be very, very similar to yours, if not exactly the same.

Nice dodge. It sounds like you don't want to get pinned down and then shown your criteria would yield bad results.

For myself, for things of great import, I require verifiable evidence upon which to draw conclusions. If someone is selling me a house, I'm going to first make sure there is a house to sell and then that it meets certain criteria (i.e. a home inspection by an expert).

For stories in the Bible, I read the words and assume they mean what they say. Oddly many Christians balk at this and prefer to 'interpret' the story to fit their preconceived ideas or beliefs. At this point, I assume you have some criteria to determine that your interpretation is the right one. That is what is being asked for. Care to help us out?

[ttruscott]

For myself, for things of great import, I require verifiable evidence upon which to draw conclusions. If someone is selling me a house,

May I suggest that by 'great import' he was not referring to buying and selling? I suspect he was interested in how you arrived at your secular materialism and rejection of a Deity as a truth, which process is not always amenable to introspection.

[Tcg]

I suspect he was interested in how you arrived at your secular materialism and rejection of a Deity as a truth, which process is not always amenable to introspection.

What caused you to suspect that given that he mentioned neither secular materialism nor rejection of a deity?



Tcg

[PinSeeker]

Nice dodge. It sounds like you don't want to get pinned down and then shown your criteria would yield bad results.

As I said, I'm not being coy, and thus I'm not dodging anything. To me, the criteria need to be defined before I can even begin to answer. 'Criteria' doesn't even seem relevant here, honestly; it seems to me what we should be talking about is the method(s) used to arrive at a conclusion. In that case, then, as I said, my criteria -- really method used -- would be pretty much the same as anyone would need to evaluate and arrive at a conclusion regarding any matter of serious import.

For myself, for things of great import, I require verifiable evidence upon which to draw conclusions. If someone is selling me a house, I'm going to first make sure there is a house to sell and then that it meets certain criteria (i.e. a home inspection by an expert).

Ah. You're talking about something else entirely. If we were talking about whether something existed or not or whether somebody did something or not (or the like), then yeah, I would require verifiable evidence. But that's an entirely different conversation (and different thread, actually) from this one. In this case, we're talking about Revelation and its correct interpretation and understanding. That being the case, what's really needed to conclude that one interpretation or understanding -- regarding Revelation or anything else -- is better than any other is to objectively research and compare and contrast all interpretations or understandings.

For stories in the Bible, I read the words and assume they mean what they say.

Well, me, too, but we're not talking about any stories in the Bible here. Again, you're totally outside the scope of this conversation. What is relevant to this particular conversation is that many times, regardless of the subject, the same things can be read and understood in at least two very different ways. They can't all be right, right? And that's kind of what I'm inviting here, regarding the things found in Revelation. If you want to talk about Revelation, then let's do so. If you want to argue about whether something exists or not or whether some Biblical story is true or not, you're in the wrong thread.

Oddly many Christians balk at this and prefer to 'interpret' the story to fit their preconceived ideas or beliefs.

Well, all Christians prefer to 'interpret' any one part of the Bible in light of and within the context of the rest of Scripture, and then their ideas and beliefs follow from that. Some do a better job of this than others. Others 'interpret' those same parts on their own without regard to any other part of Scripture, which they're welcome to do but inviting of misunderstanding and possibly abject ignorance, one or both of which usually results/result.

I assume you have some criteria to determine that your interpretation is the right one. That is what is being asked for. Care to help us out?

Again, we're talking about Revelation and its correct interpretation and understanding. To conclude that one interpretation or understanding is better than any other is to objectively research and compare and contrast all interpretations or understandings. Would you not agree? I mean, any academically minded person would, it seems to me...

[brunumb]

...what criteria do you apply to determine definitively that your understanding is correct? How are those criteria applied to arrive at the conclusive decision?

Again, not to be coy in any way, but, well, what "criteria" would you use in coming to a "conclusive decision" regarding anything of great import, substance, and breadth? My answer would probably be very, very similar to yours, if not exactly the same.

That's what is known as a Claytons answer: the answer you give when you don't have an answer. I have yet to have anyone provide any such criteria. The decision is invariably based on nothing more than "My understanding/interpretation is the correct one and everyone else is wrong". It is a waste of time expecting any more.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 27 by PinSeeker]

To me, the criteria need to be defined before I can even begin to answer. 'Criteria' doesn't even seem relevant here, honestly; it seems to me what we should be talking about is the method(s) used to arrive at a conclusion.

That is precisely what you should be doing. Explain the criteria or the method to show how you can justify your conclusion as being the correct one while others are therefore incorrect. You have explained neither. There is no reason to conclude that you are any more correct than anyone else. You might as well just spin a wheel and go with the what comes up.

[PinSeeker]

That's what is known as a Claytons answer: the answer you give when you don't have an answer.

No, it's the kind of thing you say when the question doesn't even make sense.

I have yet to have anyone provide any such criteria.

Yeah -- again, the point is, the asking for "criteria" doesn't even make any sense with regard to understanding Revelation... or comprehending anything.

The decision is invariably based on nothing more than "My understanding/interpretation is the correct one and everyone else is wrong".

Well this is for sure not what my decision is based on. About anything. This makes it sound like the understanding I have is different than anybody else's, which is ridiculous. It's not "my" understanding, as if no one else else has ever had it. This is why I was sure to make clear -- I made it abundantly clear -- that my understanding is the result of careful research. Surely I did not rely solely on my own understanding; this is what fools do. At any rate, for anyone to say about anything, "My understanding is right and everyone else is wrong" is to reveal ignorance and thus is really what people who aren't really thinking are thinking. Again, if people base their decision about anything on, "I'm right and everybody else is wrong," while it may make them feel good about themselves and/or superior to others, it's nothing more, really, than ignorance.

It is a waste of time expecting any more.

And that's exactly what I expected from you. The irony is, what you're basically saying is, "I don't want to try to understand, because well, without even without having tried to understand it or even thinking about it, much less having actual conversations with others who have different viewpoints on it, I'm right about it being stupid and making no sense, and therefore I'm not going to waste my time." If you want to do that to yourself, I mean, in my opinion, that's too bad, but it's fine with me, man. You're your own man.